Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor? [Update 1.2]

Last post 09-20-2009, 2:51 PM by coolkid115. 20 replies.
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  •  08-30-2009, 6:05 AM 711075

    Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor? [Update 1.2]

    All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection.

    Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners.

    Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy?

    First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this -

    Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed.

    Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!"

    But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners.

    Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost.

    In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this.

    The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it.

    Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe?

    I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners.

    However, what if the Precursors had not been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity.

    In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact.

    'We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.'


    Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of them. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors?

    It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion.

    Update 1.2

    (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired. I'll try and update it tomorrow.

    Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system.

    Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld.

    Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it.

    Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners.

    Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had?

    I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction?

    My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief subconciously could activate the various devices upon Halo.

    And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor?

    Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond.
     


    "This one has forgotten whether it's heatsink is over capacity. It wonders whether the criminal scum considers itself fortunate" ~ Blasto, the only Hanar Spectre.
  •  08-30-2009, 6:19 AM 711079 in reply to 711075

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Eh... I dunno. Sparks remark of "You are Forerunner" still resounds strongly in opposition...

    Current Fan Fictions in the Library:

    ODST: Hellbound

    The Interrogation of Ellen Anders

    Halo: Archangel
  •  08-30-2009, 6:22 AM 711080 in reply to 711079

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed.

    I'll edit this into the OP.


    "This one has forgotten whether it's heatsink is over capacity. It wonders whether the criminal scum considers itself fortunate" ~ Blasto, the only Hanar Spectre.
  •  08-30-2009, 10:46 AM 711222 in reply to 711080

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    It's an interesting theory but this is all with the assumption that the Forerunners actually found Precursor technology or even that the Forerunners based their technology on the Precursors.

    Now I know that we all learn from those before us but the Precursors are such a mysterious race that we don't even know the exact timeframe they were around. So the assumption that the Forerunners learned from the Precursors is a logical move but lacks reason.


    "Die?"Kurt laughed."Didn't you know?"he told the Elite. "...Spartans never die."
  •  08-30-2009, 11:01 AM 711233 in reply to 711075

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Wolverfrog49:
    And Halo; all throughout the games we have been led to believe that the Forerunners created this incredible weapon. But have we ever had proof, solid, concrete proof? What if the Precursors originally built Halo as a counter-measure to the Flood, but never had a chance to activate it? It would explain why, humanity, being the last remnant of the Precursors, could use such a weapon. Once the Precursors had faded, perhaps, the Forerunners discovered it during their own war with the Flood. They perhaps modified it a little, finding the Precursor Sentinels to be friendly towards them, and built Monitors to keep the rings in good condition.

     

    Of course we have proof.

    "Yes, the Forerunner built this place.  What they call a 'Fortress World'." -Cortana, Halo: Combat Evolved

    Short of actually witnessing Forerunner engineers design and construct Halo that's the best proof there can be.

    I agree that there's something strangely special about humans in the Halo universe, but I believe it's in humanity's future not their past.

     

  •  08-30-2009, 11:09 AM 711241 in reply to 711075

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Wolverfrog49:

    All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection.

    Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners.

    Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy?

    First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this -

    Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed.

    Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!"

    But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners.

    Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost.

    In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this.

    The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it.

    Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe?

    I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners.

    However, what if the Precursors had not been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity.

    In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact.

    'We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.'


    Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of them. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors?

    And Halo; all throughout the games we have been led to believe that the Forerunners created this incredible weapon. But have we ever had proof, solid, concrete proof? What if the Precursors originally built Halo as a counter-measure to the Flood, but never had a chance to activate it? It would explain why, humanity, being the last remnant of the Precursors, could use such a weapon. Once the Precursors had faded, perhaps, the Forerunners discovered it during their own war with the Flood. They perhaps modified it a little, finding the Precursor Sentinels to be friendly towards them, and built Monitors to keep the rings in good condition.

    It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion.

     

    still, even if humans were descended from the forerunners, or the precursors,  it wouldn't make sense why they didn't leave us any knowledge of their existence.

    maybe they were human like, but not human. God's first attempt at making us maybe?


    Originally Anguished Prophet, but they thought it would be best to cut out the end of it.
  •  08-30-2009, 11:33 AM 711259 in reply to 711241

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Maybe they didn't leave us any knowledge because they chose not to. The first time around the Precursors had been all-knowing, something bad happened. Omniscience must have been a wonderful, yet terrible burden, and so the Precursors chose to eradicate all knowledge they possessed.

     Oh, and tmspartan? I presumed they would have discovered Precursor technology because they knew somehow that a mantle had been passed down to them by the Precursors. Like with the humans learning of their inheritance through discovering Halo, the Forerunners probably learned of their inheritance by discovering some Precursor technology.


    "This one has forgotten whether it's heatsink is over capacity. It wonders whether the criminal scum considers itself fortunate" ~ Blasto, the only Hanar Spectre.
  •  08-30-2009, 1:08 PM 711331 in reply to 711259

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    grunts are the forerunners. and the precusors

     


    I get banned for no reason
  •  08-30-2009, 1:21 PM 711341 in reply to 711259

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    great theory, Wolvy. this fascination with the Precursors, let alone the Forerunners, is not widely held. i'm with you, in that regard.

    a couple points: the Forerunners held their "religion" as the passing of the Mantle. When you throw in the idea that they inherited this belief from the Precursors, you can justify that humanity could be the ancient race. However, what i've come to realize is that humanity does not change throughout the ages, meaning mentality, lust for power, need/ desire of love, etc., so it is hard for me to picture them as a life-creating race.

    your argument did have some excellent points, but i guess the thing is this: The Precursors were the highest form of intellegence, they were intergallactic for goodness sake! whether by design or maybe even some other catalyst, like the flood, they left this galaxy and have never returned...... yet. 

    my second story is going to touch on some of the ideas here and hopefully give better insight (altough it is just fan fiction) into a possibility of the Precursors. 

    For me, the Forerunners are more important to the story of Halo than the Precursors, BUT it doesn't make them any less interesting.

    bravo, Wolver. Bravo.


    New story out! Halo: Below the Brine
    (it's the best story you're not reading!)
  •  08-31-2009, 2:30 PM 712681 in reply to 711331

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Im Allhere:

    grunts are the forerunners. and the precusors

     

    ...You just blew my mind.....THIS could be the greatest discovery of all time!
  •  09-04-2009, 7:44 PM 716383 in reply to 711241

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    i think humans are the remnants of the forerunner empire. right now im thinking forerunners seeded earth. so its not so much humans as it is DNA. they seeded themselves here when they knew they couldnt defeat the flood.
  •  09-08-2009, 1:48 AM 719163 in reply to 711259

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    maybe they did it to save us from the flood?

    If we knew, we would explore...

    we accidentally encountered them, on level 8..lol

  •  09-08-2009, 5:36 AM 719197 in reply to 719163

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Wolver, i might talk with you (PM) about some of these ideas being worked into a FF.
    you have a grasp on the situation few do.


    New story out! Halo: Below the Brine
    (it's the best story you're not reading!)
  •  09-08-2009, 6:00 AM 719200 in reply to 711075

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    I see what u mean but the Forerunners might not be humanity but they actually survived the flood. It says in the last terminal (sorry not exact quote) "I will wait for you at the garden of eden" which is saying that because the forerunners stated that Earth is Eden that maybe there were 2 surviving forerunners and that the "Garden" is actually the ark in which they came back to earth once the heat died off and integreated into the human society making a bloodline that eventually leads to John 117 which gives Spark the idea that he was the first one to activate the Halo because he had the bloodline.

    Ps: this is just a random rant that popped into my head when i read your post wolverfrog 

  •  09-08-2009, 6:04 AM 719202 in reply to 711079

    Re: [Theory] Humanity are not Forerunner, but in fact, Precursor?

    Spartan R41:Eh... I dunno. Sparks remark of "You are Forerunner" still resounds strongly in opposition...

    Not as strong as the Onyx sentinals identifying the spartan 3s as not even reclaimer, instead as a native species. We know spark was crazy. We have no reason to suspect the Onyx sentinals were. So who do you believe? An insane AI that floats around saying "I am a genius!" or a non-insane, probably non-emotional robotty thing? Sounds like a simple question to me...

     

    Wolverfrog49:

    Maybe they didn't leave us any knowledge because they chose not to. The first time around the Precursors had been all-knowing, something bad happened. Omniscience must have been a wonderful, yet terrible burden, and so the Precursors chose to eradicate all knowledge they possessed.

     Oh, and tmspartan? I presumed they would have discovered Precursor technology because they knew somehow that a mantle had been passed down to them by the Precursors. Like with the humans learning of their inheritance through discovering Halo, the Forerunners probably learned of their inheritance by discovering some Precursor technology. 

    1. I don't know. That sounds pretty weak to me, but plausible.
     2. We got this far without anyone else's tech. Why wouldn't the Forerunners have? 
    Beware the Australian Fridge

    Veraam:

    One with power = Corruption
    Two with power = War
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