The New Rushing Megathread

Last post 04-24-2010, 9:43 AM by hangingbaskets. 992 replies.
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  •  04-29-2009, 7:04 PM 571827

    The New Rushing Megathread

    I need to stop breaking the Megathreads.

    We seem to have seen a massive increase in the number of posts about Rushing, so I've decided to make a megathread for the topic.

    Go ahead and post in here if you want to see more rushing, want to see less rushing, think it's perfect, and what should be done.

    Also you can post Rush and Rush Defense Strategies.

    If you guys like, I can put some of the better ones up here in the OP.
  •  04-29-2009, 7:08 PM 571830 in reply to 571827

    Re: The NewRushing Megathread

    In my opinion rushing shouldn't make your trueskill go up. The reason being is rushing involves no skill whatsoever. Being completely honest. Anyone can win by rushing, I have done some of the cheapest rushes and they are incredibly easy to do and involve no skill at all. Instead, i think if you rush, your trueskill shouldn't go up unless your rush involved real skill, cause most rushes are way to easy to perform.

    Someone bragged to me that they're trueskill is 32 and mine is only 26 so they challenged me to a match and rushed me. I fended it off, and beat him. He isn't skilled, simply able to rush, which involves zero skill at this game. 


    Shove the MAC up Anders @$$, and mac blast it.
  •  04-29-2009, 7:15 PM 571838 in reply to 571827

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    The only rush that is overpowered in my opinion is this:

    You are Prophet and 2 USNC players.  Prophet is in front. They are Arbiter, Prophet, and Anders.

    The enemy shows up at the prophet's doorstep at 1:30. The prophet has blessed immolation, arbiter has the healing upgrade, and  Anders has 3 warthogs with gunner. The prophet dies because he cannot leader recall anywhere. The covenant player is now under constant harrasment.

    What do you do? Everything you build can get raged by the arbiter, especially warthogs. If they build flamers, just run your arbiter and prophet away and let the warthogs micro all over them.

    Meanwhile, Anders is bringing in more warthogs, the prophet is constantly killing the covenant's base, and if your lucky the arbiter might even be teleporting in suicide grunts. 

    If you can think of a counter to this please post. Note: You cannot have a scorpion out by the time they destroy the covenant's base. Anyways they would just cryo it and arbiter and prophet would have banshees/hunters by then.


    GT: T2 is RIPPIN
    MLG Dallas Here I Come.
  •  04-29-2009, 7:23 PM 571845 in reply to 571827

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    phophets the only imbalanced rusher the fact that you cant get more then 2 buildings up in a 1v1 3 if your lucky in a 2v2 or 3v3 this doesnt leave very much unit choice youve got your turrets hogs and marines then what.
    RAnk 1 cutter
    currently new name Tainted izHere
  •  04-29-2009, 7:41 PM 571868 in reply to 571838

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    T2 Is Rippin:

    The only rush that is overpowered in my opinion is this:

    You are Prophet and 2 USNC players.  Prophet is in front. They are Arbiter, Prophet, and Anders.

    The enemy shows up at the prophet's doorstep at 1:30. The prophet has blessed immolation, arbiter has the healing upgrade, and  Anders has 3 warthogs with gunner. The prophet dies because he cannot leader recall anywhere. The covenant player is now under constant harrasment.

    What do you do? Everything you build can get raged by the arbiter, especially warthogs. If they build flamers, just run your arbiter and prophet away and let the warthogs micro all over them.

    Meanwhile, Anders is bringing in more warthogs, the prophet is constantly killing the covenant's base, and if your lucky the arbiter might even be teleporting in suicide grunts. 

    If you can think of a counter to this please post. Note: You cannot have a scorpion out by the time they destroy the covenant's base. Anyways they would just cryo it and arbiter and prophet would have banshees/hunters by then.

    In the 3v3 I have acually loved being front and center with the prophet.

    Maybe you should have went Temple, shield generator then definitly go anti infantry as soon as possible. When you see 2 covenant on opposing team you go anti infantry which in most cases will work most of the time and use your prophet to handle the warthogs. But never let your prophet die in the first place a good prophet is an alive one if your shielf starts getting low just retreat. If they have your base blocked off so you cant teleport there is always running to a friends base.

    When playing on that Flood map where one base is clearly the closest for the enemy  and slightly far from your team mates always go into defense and ask your partners to be on standby to rush and help you because if its 3 agaisnt 1 defender the defender will eventually lose due to no team work.

    A great thing is you can use that base as a distraction base immediatly your partner on the highest cliff who is further away from all opponents should scout the nearest free base and whoever is front and center should get a base that is furthest away from the battle. So if they go 3v1 and blow up your base you have another one building that is far out from being attacked next.

    The last thing is that you and your team mates need to work together better and just get better at the game. It really helps if you stop being a newb.


    I am the Abyss!!! Eternal Darkness for ALL!

    For all Deathmatch rants please visit this forum-http://www.halowars.com/forums/thread/567246.aspx
  •  04-29-2009, 7:46 PM 571871 in reply to 571827

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    I don't think the game moves quick enough.  Rushing should be required.  I like a fast-pace fight from the beginning to the end.  How about if you don't attack your enemy at least once every minute, then an ion cannon from command and conquer blows your base up?
  •  04-29-2009, 8:03 PM 571895 in reply to 571845

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    ok since you made one again i go back in spill of it all.

     

    the major problem is how Robot set economy that is rsp (rate per second) very slow for a boom or turtling but i get to that later.

     

    2nd problem is how units is balance they seem be very balance in death match once economy has no effect on the units where there exact time can be used.

     But that will the game brakes down in standard mode where all units are based on average rsp value of 12-14 to maintain an army and boom you need 5-6 regular supply pads but one base can only support 7 slots and you can make them heavy which would be 3-4 heavys but that would slow down economy which is major problem if you can find other way around that.

     Which would be warthog its average ability strength if you compare it to all other units that is full tech up but it shine in the fact that its only unit that requires 3 supply pads which makes it fastest and strongest unit to maintian.  by only having 3 supply pads means that anders never need fortress so cutter ability is a waste.  now only have 3 supply pads and unit being constant made that gives you ability to rush and boom or tech at same time.  Which screams unbalance

    all units are 12-14 rps value as pointed earlier but warthogs is 6.8 rps value this is why they are so deadly because all other units are slave to economy.  for example take marines cost 100 and build time 8 secs now if you take away micro marines will win against warthogs as long they all ways fight 3 to 1 ratio but since marines are slave to economy they can't do this.  Problem is their rps value is 12. 5 almost double then warthog so you need to add pauses in build time to have money in upgrading and tecking when using marines and that puts their average build time in 15 secs range still faster then warthog build time but if you put them in non micro fight warthogs would win since marines can't fight 1 1/2 against 1 warthog.

    All units have to have extended time because of economy that why warthogs is very op.  Take anders ability since she her both ability's actually save her time to get the upgrade which can be easy counted if there where more then one option but sadly there isn't. 

    the way you should counter anders is mix units, say she going for warthogs spam and rush with it.  the none aders should skip upgrades since that would slow him down in both tecking and units vs anders so he should grab low tech and go Marine with new blood, + warthog with gunner would be = to warthog with 2nd upgrade.  Same thing when anders is getting gauss.  should be marines with rocket + warthogs with grandier + cobras  no upgrades and they will destroy full spam of micro hogs with guass very easy specially you set up the units correctly.

    But this is very hard to do since when you go marines you lost your economy benefit since they are 12.5 so you have slow down a lot which anders would have same pop as you.  which will get you killed since the army 1 to 1 which if all units have same rps value 2 to 1 which would be in defenders favor.

    Now just to balance this out is take warthog and give it 12.5 rps value which would make it cost 275.  you can mess around the time but unit is balance on time it self so if you keep the time equal to every other unit then when economy extend its time on marines it will extend time on warthogs as well which would keep the variable of economy the same.

    Now since this happen you will slow down the game since everyone will have to extend there supply pads, now if you dont want that happen then you can do the complete opposite and change the units to warthogs rps value or pic a new rps value and base it on class of units.

    Say you pick pop count meaning that if unit is pop one have this rps value or pop 2 count have this rps and so on or tech lvl  tech lvl 0 have rps value of this, tech 1 this and so on. which ever bring more  of balance which robot should determine.  

    I think removing all usnc economy bounus would be small possibility since cutters and forge don't really help while anders is beyond helping her, which puts her on cheap field even if warthog is fixed.

     

  •  04-29-2009, 8:20 PM 571914 in reply to 571895

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    The problem is two prohets at your base at 3 minutes with blessed immo and possibly regret's sentence too. 

    How do you, as a team of prophet/forge or anders/forge, beat this rush? It just doesnt seem possible. Everything you build gets beamed. I cant build warthogs, or anything else, really, fast enought.

     

    Making the prophets slower will help little. It wont take them 3 minutes to get to my base, thats for sure. They will still be there killing me. They will still be able to beam all my units. They will still be able to leader-port away and return with shields again and resume beaming whatever units and buildings i have left, which is usually very little. 

     

    Prophets really need toning-down early game.  Im honestly getting sick of it. Turrets get beamed, infantry is too slow and I cant get them moving around fast enough, warthogs cant be produced fast enough, I cant get enough scorpions/hornets out that soon, there really is no options. Its basically die or die. 

     

    edit: also, what happened to the old one? 


    GT: Warlord Alpha - Leader: Sergeant Forge
  •  04-29-2009, 8:25 PM 571921 in reply to 571827

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    The only problem I see with rushing is the times when people abuse it (wink to Anders and her guass hogs)

    Rushing is about delaying the enemies' unit production, not to get a quick win. People, on the other hand, mostly go for the quick win, thinking they get a quick exp. But thats wrong. You don't get much from rushing besides securing a win. 

    Recently, I have played a game 1v1, Forge vs Forge. He built 2 tanks and parked them at my base, aiming at my supplies and reactor. I eventully defeated them, but he did not send any reinforcements to reinforce his tanks. But he did delay me big time, and I ended up seeing some grizzlies soon, and he won. THATS how rushing should be done. 

    The problem is, people will be people and still reinforce their rushing units. If we can find some way to prevent that, that would help much.

    What do you guys think? 

     


    There are 10,000 babies born every hour.
    Thats 240,000 babies every day!
    Someone's gotta figure out what to do with all that sh*t.
    Gamertag: Smileetus
  •  04-29-2009, 8:26 PM 571922 in reply to 571871

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    wethebishop:I don't think the game moves quick enough.  Rushing should be required.  I like a fast-pace fight from the beginning to the end.  How about if you don't attack your enemy at least once every minute, then an ion cannon from command and conquer blows your base up?

    I like this idea. Maybe there should be a rush play mode.

    That way it might siphon off some/most of the rushers from standard play.

  •  04-29-2009, 8:27 PM 571923 in reply to 571914

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    WarlordAlpha:

    The problem is two prohets at your base at 3 minutes with blessed immo and possibly regret's sentence too. 

    How do you, as a team of prophet/forge or anders/forge, beat this rush? It just doesnt seem possible. Everything you build gets beamed. I cant build warthogs, or anything else, really, fast enought.

     

    Making the prophets slower will help little. It wont take them 3 minutes to get to my base, thats for sure. They will still be there killing me. They will still be able to beam all my units. They will still be able to leader-port away and return with shields again and resume beaming whatever units and buildings i have left, which is usually very little. 

     

    Prophets really need toning-down early game.  Im honestly getting sick of it. Turrets get beamed, infantry is too slow and I cant get them moving around fast enough, warthogs cant be produced fast enough, I cant get enough scorpions/hornets out that soon, there really is no options. Its basically die or die. 

     

    edit: also, what happened to the old one? 

    One way i see fixing that is to get rid of PoR shields, but if that happens there will be riots, and maybe suicides. :O


    There are 10,000 babies born every hour.
    Thats 240,000 babies every day!
    Someone's gotta figure out what to do with all that sh*t.
    Gamertag: Smileetus
  •  04-29-2009, 8:28 PM 571924 in reply to 571914

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    I personly do not like the warthog rush, or the leader rush, but I do not think anything needs to be changed, because if you scout nearly any rush can be countered.  sometimes it takes a lot more skill to counter a rush than to make one, but it can be done.
    Gamertag: Mot88

    If you're ever interested in a good 3v3 or 2v2 match send me a message
  •  04-29-2009, 8:29 PM 571926 in reply to 571895

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    Brute + Anders rush is brutal! I just pwned. (This isnt a complait btw) I was planning to do a prophet rush we a chieftan and 1 brute squad appeared. I did a prophet 1v1 with chief and PoR won, but the by then 2 more squads came and killed him. I managed to fight him off with EHGs and I sent them to help my ally (who was cutter) who was being attacked my teir 1 hogs. By the time my EHGs got there a chieftan and 3 brutes had appeared next to my base and they slaightered my EGHs when they got there, and when I got my prophet back I didnt have enough money to keep the cleansing beam, so he died and then they destoryed my base, and we lost. Ug, it was like 40 seconds into the game. I need a counterstrategy....
  •  04-29-2009, 8:31 PM 571930 in reply to 571914

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    WarlordAlpha:

    The problem is two prohets at your base at 3 minutes with blessed immo and possibly regret's sentence too. 

    How do you, as a team of prophet/forge or anders/forge, beat this rush? It just doesnt seem possible. Everything you build gets beamed. I cant build warthogs, or anything else, really, fast enought.

     you post to only make enough troops for one leader not both that's why you have teammate and this will get fixed,  once there speed get nipped flamethrowers will be best unit and use db. have one of you to use dp and other one give him money so both of you wont be in debt also so one you can do instantly.  also have the other one over shoot with pelican drop so one army moves up while your army moves down in db so profit can't run away.

    Making the prophets slower will help little. It wont take them 3 minutes to get to my base, thats for sure. They will still be there killing me. They will still be able to beam all my units. They will still be able to leader-port away and return with shields again and resume beaming whatever units and buildings i have left, which is usually very little. 

    once there speed is decrease flamethrower would be good choice and if he going use the beam then you need to counter it with db or use your leader ability.  

     

    Prophets really need toning-down early game.  Im honestly getting sick of it. Turrets get beamed, infantry is too slow and I cant get them moving around fast enough, warthogs cant be produced fast enough, I cant get enough scorpions/hornets out that soon, there really is no options. Its basically die or die. 

    The only thing needs to change is the cost of DB since its on 6 min cool down there no need to cripple your economy on top of that but all balance issues should be based on 1 vs 1 since 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3 there to many variables that could be reason why one attack seemed uncountable.

     

    edit: also, what happened to the old one? 

    it got to long maybe they reading it actually looking into the problem to see any real solutions came out of it or they got annoyed by and decided to delete it but i hope it could be the first one.

  •  04-29-2009, 8:34 PM 571935 in reply to 571922

    Re: The New Rushing Megathread

    Robot should send out some kind of survey about how "you" play Halo Wars, what "you" think is wrong, and what "you" would do to fix it.

    This could be done through xbox live, that way it wouldn't be spamed (one survey per gamertag). 

    This way Robot could see how the whole community feels and not just the loudest. 

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