The Covenant is OP thread

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  •  03-18-2009, 11:49 PM 514664

    The Covenant is OP thread

    Post in here if you think the Covenant is OP, and why, and what you think should be done about it! I will be combining threads that pop up into this one.
  •  03-18-2009, 11:59 PM 514677 in reply to 514664

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    Free unit travel is just so unfair. There. I said it.
  •  03-19-2009, 12:22 AM 514691 in reply to 514677

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    the arbiter    i think he is over powered fully up graded and with tones of supplies he can take out a hle army and bases by himself in rage mode  regret   his glassing beam is alo over powered and his sheilds   and the fact that they can both take out the cheifeton real easy and without even losing much health
    Gamertag:
    Spar10 of FEAR
  •  03-19-2009, 12:23 AM 514693 in reply to 514664

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    The Brute Chieftan and Arbiter need to be leveled out a bit against UNSC.  I'd much rather see other units become more effective against these heroes rather than to see this game turn into a mind-numbing soft-counter system.

    I've been playing some top Chieftan players, and I've come across some very effective strategies.  They are able to pump out Brutes as fodder and all-around units, get their leader out, and progress to making Hunters.  The only way to turn this into a stalemate is with SPARTANs, this is why:

    -Other infantry have no bang for their buck, and are too slow.  They are also countered VERY hard by Jackals.

    -Hogs have very weak armor.  One micro mistake and you will lose 3+ Hogs to a Chieftan.

    -Turrets only delay the inevitable being that you are wasting your cash on static defenses giving a good player total map control.

    -Teching up fast is not possible.  By the time you start building tanks or aircraft, he has a handful of Brutes, his leader, and possibly a Hunter or two.

    In RTS, you should not have to attack another player's base just to stop a rush.  This is how the game evolves into a slowpaced boring game.  There should be some unit micromanagement in battles.  I'm finding myself only making strategical decisions, not tactical to win games.  And when I win, I feel as if we both lost.  It's hard to follow, but I'm trying to keep this short.

    You guys made SPARTANs to where they are somewhat effective.  That is the only UNSC infantry I build.  The others are useless.  It's a bit extreme, but I think infantry would play a more effective role in global buffs to DPS and global nerfs to armor to keep them reasonable.  It would enforce players to think about unit care a bit more as well, raising the overall skill level of the community.

    Another option would to just be to delay the Cov leader.  It makes no sense that they have such a strong unit within the first minute of the game.  Of course in doing this, Hogs would need to be toned down.

    An easy way out would be to lessen the recharge time on Disruption Bomb to make it available more often.

    The only thing I'm afraid of in patching based on who and what is OP, is that you guys may nerf key fun factors in the game.  Too much nerfing will render a very soft counter system, and it will be a game of nothing but focus fire and plenty of time for those with poor reaction times to walk away with more wins than they deserve.  There are not many strong, effective units like the obvious couple.  I think there should be global buffs rather than a few nerfs.  I'm much more in favor of degrading unit and base armors globally.


    GT: Skynnee/FootlongKhan
    Faction: RandomAll
    Highest 1v1 Standard Rank: 17
  •  03-19-2009, 12:34 AM 514705 in reply to 514664

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    Aloysius:Post in here if you think the Covenant is OP, and why, and what you think should be done about it! I will be combining threads that pop up into this one.

    your a better man then i thought, there is hope.

    ok, i hate to admit it, but i think that the UNSC is underpowered VS covie leaders.

    The covenant can get 2 leaders out in the time it takes for a disruption bomb to recharge. therefore, it leaves you defenseless.  Also, i dont think the disruption bomb has a wide enough range. A covie leader can quickly move out of its radios and continue to attack you. 

     Also, im not talking about rushing, this can happen later in the game as well. By this time resources aernt a problem, and moving your troops to attack an enemy base will only make your own even more defenseless  


    aloy once said that he was done plaing nice with anyone who joined prior to 09.

    Now were done playing nice
  •  03-19-2009, 12:37 AM 514707 in reply to 514705

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    Early Game Covenant are stronger. Late game they are weaker. Pretty much it as far as i see it.
  •  03-19-2009, 12:44 AM 514713 in reply to 514693

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    1. Cutter's Elephant needs more armor. As of now, the prophet can kill it in 3 seconds which is a little absurd.

     

    2. Disruption bomb needs to recharge twice as fast atleast. How else are you supposed to kill the arbiter as UNSC? If you are playing as arbiter, you don't even have to build units. Just keep upgrading your arbiter and then focus all resources on the arbiters rage attack. He will kill anything the UNSC throw at him. I won so many games only building a single hero. It's stupid and boring.

     

    3. If you destroy a pending building, you should get your money back regardless of how damaged it is. If the prophet uses cleansing beam on your building that hasn't finished building, you are at a loss. You can try to quickly demolish it but you won't get all your money back. Prophet rushers can abuse this.

     

    4. Buildings need to build faster.............SERIOUSLY.

     

     

    I kinda wish they would take the heros out of the picture completely. Instead of getting a free hero at the beginning, make it so you are forced to buy it instead. That way you are forced to use your actual units for once. I mean really........Does anyone use grunts or marines? These are the main units yet no one uses them. Instead of Halo wars, it's more like Hero wars. What happened to the battles between marines, grunts, jackals, hunters, spartans, etc...? That would be a lot more fun and strategic instead of these lame hero rushes every game and having to jump through 50 hoops attempting to stop it.


    Gamertags- LoC SnOwGhOst


  •  03-19-2009, 12:49 AM 514720 in reply to 514713

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    Cookie Krisp:I kinda wish they would take the heros out of the picture completely. Instead of getting a free hero at the beginning, make it so you are forced to buy it instead.

    A good idea.


    GT: Skynnee/FootlongKhan
    Faction: RandomAll
    Highest 1v1 Standard Rank: 17
  •  03-19-2009, 12:54 AM 514724 in reply to 514720

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    Please don't take balance advice from 90% of these forums.

     1). Minor nerf to the first arbiter self healing upgrade

    2). Minor boost grunts vs air

    3).  Decrease in disruption bomb recharge time.

     The game is pretty close to being balanced.  We don't need any radical changes.

  •  03-19-2009, 12:55 AM 514727 in reply to 514693

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    I thought covies were fine till I got to upper 30s, now im playing people that are actually quite good and its really not fun at times.  I play random all, so I get too see both sides of this very often.

     The problem is covies get their hero, and the ability to make just as many early game units as you do.  If I'm making flamers, a good player is making early game jackals.  Jackals+hero is >>>> flamers.  I think a big part of this probelm is that the heros are a decent bit faster(especially PoR) then infantry.  If I have my flamers attack the hero, they gotta get thier first and when they do get their, the hero easily runs away as the flamers stop to fire(which is another thing that really gets in the way).  If I try to kill the hero, he runs around and his backup shreds my flamers.  If I kill his backup, at best ive got like 2-3 flamers left while his hero is full health and owning me.

     Another issue is the economic advantage covies can have.  They don't need to build reactors, which is a slot for wharehouses.  Depending on the leader, they don't need a hall right away, and their field armory is the temple. This means that covie have more warehouses then UNSC the large majority of the time. 

    Thats just one of the economic advantages they have.  They also have 2 more inderect ones.  The first is that any hero can take out most rebel bases with very little damage to himself, and then gather the large amount of resources that drop for an early game supply advantage.  After that, they can go harrass and VERY easily keep a UNSC player from expanding for quite a long time.  As Covie, if im playing a GOOD UNSC player, I settle on boxing him into his base and controlling the map, as well as forcing him to show me what units he is producing as im constantly attacking his base with my hero.  He then gets smashed by my hero and backup units(which I can build hella fast as at this point ive easily expanded if hes boxed in) that are counters to his units.

    Late game, covie heros are not a big deal(cept full upgraded arby, but thats just ridiculous), and UNSC has a decent advantage.  However, its VERY hard to get to this stage against a covie that knows what he is doing.

  •  03-19-2009, 1:03 AM 514735 in reply to 514664

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    Aloysius:Post in here if you think the Covenant is OP, and why, and what you think should be done about it! I will be combining threads that pop up into this one.

     

    ...I don't mean to be rude here...but what in the world are you talking about? I see everyone winning with the UNSC. All the human people come here complaining about the strategies that they don't want to learn how to fight. Please, please, please don't nerf the Covenant! Most people play the UNSC, and the UNSC wins most games. Those of us who play the Covenant take GREAT PRIDE in stepping outside the box and winning with a civilization that we think is colorful, interesting, and underused.

     

    Please don't be a victim of all the kids coming in here complaining. They are just here so that you will pay attention to their crying and they can have easier wins when you move things more in their favor. I ask you to think long and hard before you change anything.

     

    And I thought the UNSC was in the lead? Like 65% to 35% Covenant? So what in the world are you asking about with the Covenant being OP? I died a little inside when I saw a moderator posting this. 


    "Let's remind the Rebellion what war is all about."
    -Grand Admiral Thrawn
  •  03-19-2009, 1:03 AM 514736 in reply to 514664

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    Aloysius:Post in here if you think the Covenant is OP, and why, and what you think should be done about it! I will be combining threads that pop up into this one.

     

    ...I don't mean to be rude here...but what in the world are you talking about? I see everyone winning with the UNSC. All the human people come here complaining about the strategies that they don't want to learn how to fight. Please, please, please don't nerf the Covenant! Most people play the UNSC, and the UNSC wins most games. Those of us who play the Covenant take GREAT PRIDE in stepping outside the box and winning with a civilization that we think is colorful, interesting, and underused.

     

    Please don't be a victim of all the kids coming in here complaining. They are just here so that you will pay attention to their crying and they can have easier wins when you move things more in their favor. I ask you to think long and hard before you change anything.

     

    And I thought the UNSC was in the lead? Like 65% to 35% Covenant? So what in the world are you asking about with the Covenant being OP? I died a little inside when I saw a moderator posting this. 


    "Let's remind the Rebellion what war is all about."
    -Grand Admiral Thrawn
  •  03-19-2009, 1:05 AM 514738 in reply to 514693

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    FootlongKhan:

    The Brute Chieftan and Arbiter need to be leveled out a bit against UNSC.  I'd much rather see other units become more effective against these heroes rather than to see this game turn into a mind-numbing soft-counter system.

    I've been playing some top Chieftan players, and I've come across some very effective strategies.  They are able to pump out Brutes as fodder and all-around units, get their leader out, and progress to making Hunters.  The only way to turn this into a stalemate is with SPARTANs, this is why:

    -Other infantry have no bang for their buck, and are too slow.  They are also countered VERY hard by Jackals.

    -Hogs have very weak armor.  One micro mistake and you will lose 3+ Hogs to a Chieftan.

    -Turrets only delay the inevitable being that you are wasting your cash on static defenses giving a good player total map control.

    -Teching up fast is not possible.  By the time you start building tanks or aircraft, he has a handful of Brutes, his leader, and possibly a Hunter or two.

    In RTS, you should not have to attack another player's base just to stop a rush.  This is how the game evolves into a slowpaced boring game.  There should be some unit micromanagement in battles.  I'm finding myself only making strategical decisions, not tactical to win games.  And when I win, I feel as if we both lost.  It's hard to follow, but I'm trying to keep this short.

    You guys made SPARTANs to where they are somewhat effective.  That is the only UNSC infantry I build.  The others are useless.  It's a bit extreme, but I think infantry would play a more effective role in global buffs to DPS and global nerfs to armor to keep them reasonable.  It would enforce players to think about unit care a bit more as well, raising the overall skill level of the community.

    Another option would to just be to delay the Cov leader.  It makes no sense that they have such a strong unit within the first minute of the game.  Of course in doing this, Hogs would need to be toned down.

    An easy way out would be to lessen the recharge time on Disruption Bomb to make it available more often.

    The only thing I'm afraid of in patching based on who and what is OP, is that you guys may nerf key fun factors in the game.  Too much nerfing will render a very soft counter system, and it will be a game of nothing but focus fire and plenty of time for those with poor reaction times to walk away with more wins than they deserve.  There are not many strong, effective units like the obvious couple.  I think there should be global buffs rather than a few nerfs.  I'm much more in favor of degrading unit and base armors globally.

     

    If you are only using Spartans, there is a huge part of your problem.

    And no, I'm not sure why it posts my things twice. I only click "post" once, but it doesn't listen...lol 


    "Let's remind the Rebellion what war is all about."
    -Grand Admiral Thrawn
  •  03-19-2009, 1:07 AM 514740 in reply to 514720

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    FootlongKhan:

    Cookie Krisp:I kinda wish they would take the heros out of the picture completely. Instead of getting a free hero at the beginning, make it so you are forced to buy it instead.

    A good idea.

    Not a good idea because that would make the Warthog rushes that much more effective.  You have no leader to defend for your base and their leader powers are pretty useless till upgraded and in the beginning of the game where you have little to no resources to use their leader powers anyway.


    I am taking the fight to the /Voobs!
    Head over to the Library and read ODST Squad: Delta...
    And please post your comments after you read it :D
  •  03-19-2009, 1:08 AM 514741 in reply to 514736

    Re: The Covenant is OP thread

    envyEye:

    Aloysius:Post in here if you think the Covenant is OP, and why, and what you think should be done about it! I will be combining threads that pop up into this one.

     

    ...I don't mean to be rude here...but what in the world are you talking about? I see everyone winning with the UNSC. All the human people come here complaining about the strategies that they don't want to learn how to fight. Please, please, please don't nerf the Covenant! Most people play the UNSC, and the UNSC wins most games. Those of us who play the Covenant take GREAT PRIDE in stepping outside the box and winning with a civilization that we think is colorful, interesting, and underused.

     

    Please don't be a victim of all the kids coming in here complaining. They are just here so that you will pay attention to their crying and they can have easier wins when you move things more in their favor. I ask you to think long and hard before you change anything.

     

    And I thought the UNSC was in the lead? Like 65% to 35% Covenant? So what in the world are you asking about with the Covenant being OP? I died a little inside when I saw a moderator posting this. 

    I myself am a Covey player, and i am with you all the way. :(   Srry for double posting.


    I am taking the fight to the /Voobs!
    Head over to the Library and read ODST Squad: Delta...
    And please post your comments after you read it :D
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