XxROGUEDETAILxX:

If a SPARTAN II without armour can take on 3 ODST's and come out victorious, then that means...

1. SPARTANS are better

2. SPARTANS can do a hell of a lot better job that ODST's

*The scenario I'm talking about is in the book "The Fall Of Reach" and the SPARTAN is John* 

Yeah, that's in hand to hand combat. How about with weapons, so it resembles an ACTUAL combat encounter.

Felix:

how the hell can you say Human casulaties are not a concern why trying to save their species?

every life is valid to the UNSC.  thats why they had the spartans.  to do the same job as everyone, with incredibly less casualties... 

Wrong. Are the Civillians who cower in their shelters really worth more than soldiers? The UNSC has billions of humans, and they could field most of them if they didn't waste money on the Spartan II program.

"Quantity has a quality all of it's own."

the Oceanborn:

My god. Are you kidding? You seem to forget a very important fact here; we as humans are facing extinction. To continually hurl ODST soldiers at the Covenant will eventually expend humanity until no one is left.

Oh, Bull! Most of humanity was dying in the glassing! Equipping more Marines would not have increased the death rates.

the Oceanborn:

That's completely out of the question, and is the reason Spartans were deployed against the Covenant. What do you think the UNSC would have rather done; lost thousands of soldiers, or make three Spartans that can take on several hundred Covenant?

The idea that one Spartan equals a thousand ODSTs is ludicrous. In combat, a thousand ODSTs would definitely outperform a Spartan.

the Oceanborn:

Even if the Spartans cost the same as a small fleet, they had the ability to infiltrate Covenant ships and destroy them from the inside out, rather than just getting blown to hell like what would have happened would that money had been put towards a fleet.

Except the money would have also gone to R&D. What would have happened if the effort into MJOLNIR went to the NOVA? The Covenant would have been stopped before Reach.

the Oceanborn:

As pointed out above, there are only so many humans left.

They had eight hundred billion humans at the outset of the war. Even towards the end, prior to 2552, there must have been a considerable amount left.

the Oceanborn:

If they had larger numbers, this would only add to human casualties. MJOLNIR armor can stand up to plasma a lot better than the ODST's armor, BDU's and skin.

Right. But the money that went towards MJOLNIR could have gone towards ceramic armor for the ODSTs, improving survival.

the Oceanborn:

If memory serves; even the Spartans thought Camp New Hope to be heavily fortified. If they had trouble, how could a regular human do better?

So, just how did superhuman strength serve them? If I recall, the whole incident would not have happened if the Spartans didn't exist, and the Spartans were incapacitated due to their armor.

the Oceanborn:

Even if that would have happened, eventually the Gravemind would have enlightened Thel, and he in turn the Elites. However, this is completely irrelevant to the argument of ODST > Spartans.

Wrong. It just proves that Spartans were not integral to the fall of the Covenant.

the Oceanborn:

You missed my point here. Just as a MAC is used for a certain purpose, the M6-C also has a purpose. Both are lethal, and both serve equally essential roles in combat. In the same respect, a nuke has it's role, while a Spartan has his/her role.

Right. THe purpose of the Spartan IIIs was to take out Covenant installations. Survival not needed. NOVAs could have done the same job in each instance were they were created.

the Oceanborn:

Seriously, this argument it becoming ridiculous. If the ODST could have completed the jobs that Spartans do efficiently, both tactically and as a means of survival, then the Spartans would have never been made. The FACT of the matter is that there was a great need for the Spartan II program. They were able to do their job better than the ODST would have been able to, and this is why the ODST resent the Spartans.

Maybe. Maybe it was a pet project of Halsey's. Maybe there were other lines of development.

But in any case, the Spartans were created to counter insurgents. They were not created to counter the Covenant, and were only adapted later.

Achilles830:

But the ODST are not traned for that kind of misson. So it would have coused more deaths and waste of life.

But they COULD be trained for that mission. And so long as the mission is accomplished within certain parameters, life is not wasted.

the Oceanborn:

ODST are not given anything. They're essentially the 2552 equivalent of Army Rangers and Paratroopers of the 20th Century. They're regular ol' humans, furthering their dislike of Spartans, and the Spartans' stigma of being called "Freaks" by the ODST.

Lethe:

Then you should be pretty happy with the game; it's a lot of fun.
Even if a squad of marines out of dozens of units on a battle field has shoulder pads .25" too thick for a fanboy's tastes :)