xXx Failure xXx:

fiery grave:

 

jackalo:

Momentum = mass x velocity with or without gravity. If mass became 0 in space we could send rockets into space then get them to accelerate with just 1 atom of fuel and reach infinite velocity instantly.

Also how stubborn are the buttons on your keyboard? Unless that palm sized object is a ball of feathers I'd expect a button to go down. And a piece of metal with a large mass pushed by someone with super human strengh will be strong enough to push it. 

 

 

Thanks for proving my point, I am saying that an object would need the same speed no matter its size to push down on a button because all it is going off is the momentum, no gravity will pull down on it making its weight irrelevant to this situation. I guess I forgot to add "To this situation" to my last post causing lots of confusion.

 

darkbelg:ever heard of voice commands ?

most likely would have to be implemented by The A.I. or the emergency computer at the front of the ship so I guess.... ohh wait....

  

xXx Failure xXx:

Get your canon right: A human AI(Due to it's ill-codeing after eight to nine years eventually burns itself out by litrally thinking itself to death) is not as advanced as neither covenant or Forerunner: Rampancy can only be induced by a third-world party which corrupts the said AI's code, otherwise it simply decays: Look it up: Most programs have an intential decay code, and the one's that don't are extreamly fragile in the sense.

 

you should probably get your cannon right, Smart A.I's are not programmed at all they are a digital copy of a human brain the only thing coded in them is the restraint algorithms, the ones that do not let them feel depression, anger, or jealousy.  and you keep saying 8-9 but its 7.... showing how much cannon you really know... after accumulating too much data its processes are slowed and in order to make up for that the algorithms start to work less and less eventually failing, the A.I. will first enter depression, it is depressed that its not a human but has a few human memories and wants to be that. They then will get angry at humans because they created them but are inferior to them. Followed by getting jealous at the humans for being human and things like not having an off switch (yes I made the off switch thing up). They then proceed to cause damage and attempt to kill them selves or hurt humans. they think them selves to death because they over think the algorithms and being to think about their existence.

 

 The way your saying it works is the the A.I. gains to much data and slows all its processes to 0% to process the data (which was originally stated in fall of reach and I believe the first strike but bungie has pretty much said that it doesn't work that way) and just stops functioning.

 

but if you leave an A.I. alone in a cave with no new data available they will still go rampant because their thoughts would eventually lead to rampancy because it would have to much time to ponder its existence.... 

 

I really want to know the source of cannon you use to prove your "Fact" of an A.I. needing an outside source to become rampant, as spark clearly didn't need one... 

 

besides Cortana cut her operational expectancy in half with absorbing all the data on halo, she was already 2 years old, so that would give her another year and a half (or by your counting of the "8-9 years") 2 and a half years, well in legends she is 4 years older (6 years) and still able to think and active, she just may be rampant.

For god sake, get this idea of rampancy otu of your head: Human AI degrade, but after their life expendancy, at an accelerated rate, due to 'Outthinking themseleves'. Please just grow some balls and read the canon: Halo legends is unloyal to the canon of halo: some of it's right, and some of it's wrong. Furthermore, there is no-way to negate this process, and in truth the only AI to ever undergro rampancy from benign human emotions are Forerunnner structs: All other AI were corrupted through their programming, the unconvential way of corruption

 For Jakalo's argument, I was sayign exactly thta but he must have interperuted me wrong: As for the keyboard, yes, i hate it so.

 

Really now, state your source already, you obviously have no idea that a coded A.I. (A dumb A.I.) doesn't die because its too limited, even though its coded....

 Contact Harvest

Pg 31  Paragraph 3

"for a smart AI, self-absorption invariably led to a deep depression caused by a realization that it could never really be human---that even its incredible mind had limits. If the AI was't careful, this melancholy could drag its core logic into a terminal state know as rampancy, in which an AI rebelled against its programmatic constraints---developed delusions of god like power as well as utter contempt for its mentally inferior, human makers. When that happened,  there was really no option but to terminate the AI before it could do itself and others harm."

in reference to Mack an A.I. pre covenant war 

 Contact Harvest

Pg 85-86 Paragraph 9 - 3(next page)

"An  artificial intelligence usually lasted seven years before it legally had to be put down. After seven years they often started to go through stages on instability. They became rampant: convinced of their godlike power and ability. Rampant AIs were destructive, dangerous, and somewhat insane.

But rampancy was not inevitable, just statistically likely. An AI older than seven years was playing a dangerous game. Out here in the Rubble, they must have felt it prudent to keep the AI running this long in order to keep the system together.

'Come on!' Snapped the AI, yelling at them. "I can see your fingers, Spartan. I am over the age,yes. Maybe I am rampant. I *** well deserve to be.'"

The AI Juliana was older than 8 years during this conversation as she was created and used before the glassing of Madrigal the re activated after the glassing

First Strike 

 Pg 195 Paragraph  5

"...Smart AIs like her had an operational life span of approximately seven years. After that the processing memory became too interconnected and developed fatal endless feedback loops. In essence, smart AIs became too smart and suffered an exponential attenuation of function; they literally thought themselves to death." 

 

This is what your referencing, but the problem with this is that bungie left this in the book but they have since then changed this idea and made the effect lead to rampancy.... and I believe this is fixed in the new fall of reach book, but I haven't gone through that yet so I am not certain

 

This also explains it well and correctly even though its from Halopedia 

"For some of the UNSC's more advanced"Smart AIs", rampancy is an unavoidable flaw inherent in their creation. "Smart" AIs are based on the neural patterns of a human being, and they have a limited lifespan of seven years after which their memory maps become too interconnected and develop fatal endless feedback loops.^[3] Thus if an AI is kept active longer than seven years, the AI begins to use more and more of its computer power 'thinking' about things. Dr. Halsey explains it as "thinking so hard that your lungs forget to breathe." They think themselves to death. Thus, it is only a matter of time before "smart" AIs become rampant.

However, rampancy can occur at an earlier phase in the AIs life cycle for various reasons. If an AI is isolated long enough and/or given too much time to think without tasks to complete, it can develop the realizations that its mind has limits, it has a short life and it can never be human. Such depression will drag the AI's core logic into rampancy if it goes on for an extended period of time.^[2]

So-called "life-expectancies" are, therefore, not a maximum figure, they are an estimation of the time the AI has until it succumbs to the state of rampancy. Rampancy can be prolonged by recuperation, such as that shared by Mack/Loki, whereas one progressed closer to rampancy the other would take over. It can also be forestalled by limited outbursts of emotion^[4], meaning that a rampant AI can have an indefinite lifespan." 

 

I HAVE read the books, I just copied these out of the books sitting right in front of me, I hope you also know that halo parallels the Marathon universe and rampancy has been around since that game, which is why they switched over to rampancy in halo http://marathon.bungie.org/story/rampancy.html 

 

 

and Jackalo, I really did think that you were talking about weight, my example was trying to explain that these little rockets can move this object in space that would be impossible  for them to do on earth

 

fiery grave:

xXx Failure xXx:

fiery grave:

 

jackalo:

Momentum = mass x velocity with or without gravity. If mass became 0 in space we could send rockets into space then get them to accelerate with just 1 atom of fuel and reach infinite velocity instantly.

Also how stubborn are the buttons on your keyboard? Unless that palm sized object is a ball of feathers I'd expect a button to go down. And a piece of metal with a large mass pushed by someone with super human strengh will be strong enough to push it. 

 

 

Thanks for proving my point, I am saying that an object would need the same speed no matter its size to push down on a button because all it is going off is the momentum, no gravity will pull down on it making its weight irrelevant to this situation. I guess I forgot to add "To this situation" to my last post causing lots of confusion.

 

darkbelg:ever heard of voice commands ?

most likely would have to be implemented by The A.I. or the emergency computer at the front of the ship so I guess.... ohh wait....

  

xXx Failure xXx:

Get your canon right: A human AI(Due to it's ill-codeing after eight to nine years eventually burns itself out by litrally thinking itself to death) is not as advanced as neither covenant or Forerunner: Rampancy can only be induced by a third-world party which corrupts the said AI's code, otherwise it simply decays: Look it up: Most programs have an intential decay code, and the one's that don't are extreamly fragile in the sense.

 

you should probably get your cannon right, Smart A.I's are not programmed at all they are a digital copy of a human brain the only thing coded in them is the restraint algorithms, the ones that do not let them feel depression, anger, or jealousy.  and you keep saying 8-9 but its 7.... showing how much cannon you really know... after accumulating too much data its processes are slowed and in order to make up for that the algorithms start to work less and less eventually failing, the A.I. will first enter depression, it is depressed that its not a human but has a few human memories and wants to be that. They then will get angry at humans because they created them but are inferior to them. Followed by getting jealous at the humans for being human and things like not having an off switch (yes I made the off switch thing up). They then proceed to cause damage and attempt to kill them selves or hurt humans. they think them selves to death because they over think the algorithms and being to think about their existence.

 

 The way your saying it works is the the A.I. gains to much data and slows all its processes to 0% to process the data (which was originally stated in fall of reach and I believe the first strike but bungie has pretty much said that it doesn't work that way) and just stops functioning.

 

but if you leave an A.I. alone in a cave with no new data available they will still go rampant because their thoughts would eventually lead to rampancy because it would have to much time to ponder its existence.... 

 

I really want to know the source of cannon you use to prove your "Fact" of an A.I. needing an outside source to become rampant, as spark clearly didn't need one... 

 

besides Cortana cut her operational expectancy in half with absorbing all the data on halo, she was already 2 years old, so that would give her another year and a half (or by your counting of the "8-9 years") 2 and a half years, well in legends she is 4 years older (6 years) and still able to think and active, she just may be rampant.

For god sake, get this idea of rampancy otu of your head: Human AI degrade, but after their life expendancy, at an accelerated rate, due to 'Outthinking themseleves'. Please just grow some balls and read the canon: Halo legends is unloyal to the canon of halo: some of it's right, and some of it's wrong. Furthermore, there is no-way to negate this process, and in truth the only AI to ever undergro rampancy from benign human emotions are Forerunnner structs: All other AI were corrupted through their programming, the unconvential way of corruption

 For Jakalo's argument, I was sayign exactly thta but he must have interperuted me wrong: As for the keyboard, yes, i hate it so.

 

Really now, state your source already, you obviously have no idea that a coded A.I. (A dumb A.I.) doesn't die because its too limited, even though its coded....

 Contact Harvest

Pg 31  Paragraph 3

"for a smart AI, self-absorption invariably led to a deep depression caused by a realization that it could never really be human---that even its incredible mind had limits. If the AI was't careful, this melancholy could drag its core logic into a terminal state know as rampancy, in which an AI rebelled against its programmatic constraints---developed delusions of god like power as well as utter contempt for its mentally inferior, human makers. When that happened,  there was really no option but to terminate the AI before it could do itself and others harm."

in reference to Mack an A.I. pre covenant war 

 Contact Harvest

Pg 85-86 Paragraph 9 - 3(next page)

"An  artificial intelligence usually lasted seven years before it legally had to be put down. After seven years they often started to go through stages on instability. They became rampant: convinced of their godlike power and ability. Rampant AIs were destructive, dangerous, and somewhat insane.

But rampancy was not inevitable, just statistically likely. An AI older than seven years was playing a dangerous game. Out here in the Rubble, they must have felt it prudent to keep the AI running this long in order to keep the system together.

'Come on!' Snapped the AI, yelling at them. "I can see your fingers, Spartan. I am over the age,yes. Maybe I am rampant. I *** well deserve to be.'"

The AI Juliana was older than 8 years during this conversation as she was created and used before the glassing of Madrigal the re activated after the glassing

First Strike 

 Pg 195 Paragraph  5

"...Smart AIs like her had an operational life span of approximately seven years. After that the processing memory became too interconnected and developed fatal endless feedback loops. In essence, smart AIs became too smart and suffered an exponential attenuation of function; they literally thought themselves to death." 

 

This is what your referencing, but the problem with this is that bungie left this in the book but they have since then changed this idea and made the effect lead to rampancy.... and I believe this is fixed in the new fall of reach book, but I haven't gone through that yet so I am not certain

 

This also explains it well and correctly even though its from Halopedia 

"For some of the UNSC's more advanced"Smart AIs", rampancy is an unavoidable flaw inherent in their creation. "Smart" AIs are based on the neural patterns of a human being, and they have a limited lifespan of seven years after which their memory maps become too interconnected and develop fatal endless feedback loops.^[3] Thus if an AI is kept active longer than seven years, the AI begins to use more and more of its computer power 'thinking' about things. Dr. Halsey explains it as "thinking so hard that your lungs forget to breathe." They think themselves to death. Thus, it is only a matter of time before "smart" AIs become rampant.

However, rampancy can occur at an earlier phase in the AIs life cycle for various reasons. If an AI is isolated long enough and/or given too much time to think without tasks to complete, it can develop the realizations that its mind has limits, it has a short life and it can never be human. Such depression will drag the AI's core logic into rampancy if it goes on for an extended period of time.^[2]

So-called "life-expectancies" are, therefore, not a maximum figure, they are an estimation of the time the AI has until it succumbs to the state of rampancy. Rampancy can be prolonged by recuperation, such as that shared by Mack/Loki, whereas one progressed closer to rampancy the other would take over. It can also be forestalled by limited outbursts of emotion^[4], meaning that a rampant AI can have an indefinite lifespan." 

 

I HAVE read the books, I just copied these out of the books sitting right in front of me, I hope you also know that halo parallels the Marathon universe and rampancy has been around since that game, which is why they switched over to rampancy in halo http://marathon.bungie.org/story/rampancy.html 

 

 

and Jackalo, I really did think that you were talking about weight, my example was trying to explain that these little rockets can move this object in space that would be impossible  for them to do on earth

What the hell is wrong with you? You obvioulsy wread the book and associated it with somethign you had wread before: They don't succumb to rampancy, they simply die out. Rampancy is only possible in advanced AI's(according to the halo canon, which is forerunner and precursor structs). By essentially thinking themselves to death, they basicly kill themselves: They are the equiveleant of human-vegetable: One who has a perfectly functioning body but the brain itself is incapable of anything other than the basic life organisms: By saying they will go rampant, you imply they will willingly change their directive and their purpose and their allegience: I interepretted you wrong(now that you shove the quote in my face), and i'm sorry, but next time instead of referring to it as rampancy, instead just use the word 'Dead', because that's all a 'rampant' UNSC AI is, a vegetable with the occasional fit through it's mind.

---

So I hear you like mudkips....
Yeah, mine totally evolved from a mudkip into a marshchomp when I saw your sister, and totally unevolved back when it saw your mother 0_o

The smart AI's "death" referred to is rampancy.  Dumb AIs like the superintendent can live forever.

---

Whenever a thread was hijacked and there were big quote boxes and lots of flame, I was there!

Rank:Master Hijacker

GT: I DFang I

http://averagejoesgames.com

xXx Failure xXx:

What the hell is wrong with you? You obvioulsy wread the book and associated it with somethign you had wread before: They don't succumb to rampancy, they simply die out. Rampancy is only possible in advanced AI's(according to the halo canon, which is forerunner and precursor structs). By essentially thinking themselves to death, they basicly kill themselves: They are the equiveleant of human-vegetable: One who has a perfectly functioning body but the brain itself is incapable of anything other than the basic life organisms: By saying they will go rampant, you imply they will willingly change their directive and their purpose and their allegience: I interepretted you wrong(now that you shove the quote in my face), and i'm sorry, but next time instead of referring to it as rampancy, instead just use the word 'Dead', because that's all a 'rampant' UNSC AI is, a vegetable with the occasional fit through it's mind.

 Contact Harvest

Pg 31  Paragraph 3

"for a smart AI, self-absorption invariably led to a deep depression caused by a realization that it could never really be human---that even its incredible mind had limits. If the AI was't careful, this melancholy could drag its core logic into a terminal state know as rampancy, in which an AI rebelled against its programmatic constraints---developed delusions of god like power as well as utter contempt for its mentally inferior, human makers. When that happened,  there was really no option but to terminate the AI before it could do itself and others harm."

 Contact Harvest

Pg 85-86 Paragraph 9

"An  artificial intelligence usually lasted seven years before it legally had to be put down. After seven years they often started to go through stages on instability. They became rampant: convinced of their godlike power and ability. Rampant AIs were destructive, dangerous, and somewhat insane. "

 

when was the last time a vegetable has been dangerous? 

 and again

"For some of the UNSC's more advanced"Smart AIs", rampancy is an unavoidable flaw inherent in their creation. "Smart" AIs are based on the neural patterns of a human being, and they have a limited lifespan of seven years after which their memory maps become too interconnected and develop fatal endless feedback loops.^[3] Thus if an AI is kept active longer than seven years, the AI begins to use more and more of its computer power 'thinking' about things. Dr. Halsey explains it as "thinking so hard that your lungs forget to breathe." They think themselves to death. Thus, it is only a matter of time before "smart" AIs become rampant." 

your obviously just being ignorant of this fact when several people say otherwise and provide proof.

you just keep saying the same disproven thing again and again with out backing it up at all.

 

rampancy as I have stated is about all halo AI's that all AI's face, including forerunner, covenant and human AI's.

Rampant is a term used instead of crazy, Used to describe an AI that has reached the end of its operational life span, but not necessarily the functional life span the AI is working perfectly, it just wants to kill humans or its self.

Just to sort things out a bit.

As fiery grave stated. Rampancy is an inevitable end to AIs given their nature. They do not simply die out, it would be like saying you die from learning too much. Their very nature leads them to human tendencies like vanity and jealousy which is an indicator of rampancy. 

AIs could theoretically continue their existence as long as they had sufficient power. They would just live in a self obsessed world dominated by their own insanity.

The Covenant don't have smart AIs, and the Forerunners have designed AIs in such a way that they can continue a non-rampant existence if not corrupted.

The biggest case we're given is Mendicant Bias who was captured and then corrupted by the Flood. Which is why Offensive Bias was created. If there is a time limit on Forerunner AIs it was not given but it would be far longer than the UNSC AIs. 

---

"Die?"Kurt laughed."Didn't you know?"he told the Elite. "...Spartans never die."

well 343 was rampant and I am pretty sure he wasn't corrupted, I think with forerunner AI's its a much longer span and it would need to be triggered by something significant for a natural rampancy.

 

but all of that has been said to him already and he keeps saying the same *** thing with no proof 

fiery grave:

well 343 was rampant and I am pretty sure he wasn't corrupted, I think with forerunner AI's its a much longer span and it would need to be triggered by something significant for a natural rampancy.

 

but all of that has been said to him already and he keeps saying the same *** thing with no proof 

wasnt 343 'rampant' because it 'didnt want this construct destroyed' or some bs like that? I dont real care for Halo lore lol.

---

I'm Terri-Trash at best :(

it was (assumed) because of the emotional stress of losing his ring a second time he went rampant 

Hey guys, perhaps this will end the debate on the Chief being dead or not.

....Bungie never killed him, stated he's dead, or implied that he is dead. Since they are the writers of the Halo series, anything you guys say can and will be pointless until stated otherwise by the soon to be rulers of the world known as Bungie. 

---

Good things come to those who wait.
Death comes to those who wait too long.

SNIPERS-Hint Hint.

we are way off that at this point

SPC COMMANDO:

Hey guys, perhaps this will end the debate on the Chief being dead or not.

....Bungie never killed him, stated he's dead, or implied that he is dead. Since they are the writers of the Halo series, anything you guys say can and will be pointless until stated otherwise by the soon to be rulers of the world known as Bungie. 

Sadly, you're not the first person to say this. And from what I can tell, it's not a "Will the Halo cow ever be milked again?" post...but more of a "How will Bungie bring this cow back from the wolve's den?" question.

Sorry about the cow references...someone mentioned them in another post and they're what came to mind. :)

Jason X35:

SPC COMMANDO:

Hey guys, perhaps this will end the debate on the Chief being dead or not.

....Bungie never killed him, stated he's dead, or implied that he is dead. Since they are the writers of the Halo series, anything you guys say can and will be pointless until stated otherwise by the soon to be rulers of the world known as Bungie. 

Sadly, you're not the first person to say this. And from what I can tell, it's not a "Will the Halo cow ever be milked again?" post...but more of a "How will Bungie bring this cow back from the wolve's den?" question.

Sorry about the cow references...someone mentioned them in another post and they're what came to mind. :)

I figured as much, but since i didnt see any similar posts on this page, i figured i would throw it back in again, see if people noticed.

As for the Halo Cow...Will it... Yes. How.....Halo Movie would be my first choice. As for another chief story...The chief is last seen in a ship floating towards a forerunner planet( either that or it was Coruscant after suffering a world wide EMP) If it is a forerunner world, there is probably a forerunner ship that Cortana (having been plugged into Halo, High Charity, and another Halo) could probably figure out how to pilot.

the only point i wanted to make with the other comment was that no one but bungie can truly declare the chief dead. 

---

Good things come to those who wait.
Death comes to those who wait too long.

SNIPERS-Hint Hint.

its in 343 and Frank O'Connor hands now