UNITS I LEFT OUT.

HAWKS-now are anti air air,machine guns replaced by missiles,(like wolverines)and cannon fires much faster and causes slight emp to air.(only) upgrades-?

vultures i already explained.

ok to covi.

MEDIC GRUNTS-consist of 5 and do exact same things as unsc medics.

em, i think thats it.

now,heres a new idea,did you every go into 3v3 and get mac blasted,cyro bombed, carpet bombed, beamed or vortexed purposely by your allies.well i think it would be nice if there was a rebel option in the menu where you could go against your own team and be by yourself.I thought about making your army turn into a repel or heritic team and in theory it could work(definetly for heritics,not so easy for rebels)

it would be only a matter of when you rebel your units change,like in HW when marines turn into odsts,but it would be hard to make new teams for them,altough they are going to be weaker so they would not have as unit types, and it would be hard on memory.if that doesnt work make it that your a new team and all you have to change is your colour.

if there were rebel teams this is what i think they should be like.im not going to develop im just going to mention breifly.

REBEL SOLDIERS-same

REBEL SNIPERS-infantry killer.

SUICIDE REBELS-good vs vehicles and infantry.

SPECIAL FORCES REBELS- an armor plated robot with a chain gun,thats it.

AT REBELS-rocket infantry good vs air and vehicles.

REBEL MOTERBIKE - weakest scout in the game,like r12germans used in WW2.

REBEL JEEP - modern day humvey,good only vs infantry.

REBEL TRUCK-truck with mg on top and deploys infantry.(really weak,4 rockets kill it)

REBEL TANK-one of those flak cannon tanks the modern day army use(in bf bad company,game, and frontlines fuel of war),has missiles on side of turret(flak is good vs infantry,missiles good vs air and vehicles,really weak though)

SPECIAL VEHICLE-like a locust just bigger,with cannons and machine guns.(counts as uber unit)

GUNSHIP - attack helicopter,chain gun at front and missile strike of some sort.

TRANSPORT HELICOPTER-transports infantry and light vehicles.

of course rebels are seriously  weak er than unsc and covi.

ok heritics.

GRUNT SQUAD-consist of 3 grunts with needlers and two elites with carbines.

HERITIC SNIPERS-3 elite carbiners,dont have jackels.

SENTINALS- i know they fly but they are not that strong,they are in a group of 3 and have sheilds.

SPECIAL FORCES-heritic leader,flys two plasma rifles,ablity to create hola drones(basically clones that arent real)

SUICIDE GRUNTS-same as HW but now serious vs vehicles.

GHOST- same.

SPECTRE- weaker.

SHADOW - same,weaker.

WRAITH-  same weaker,(all heritic vehicles have patterns on them)

BANSHEE- same.

PHANTOM- same, weaker

SUPER SENTINAL- anti air,stuns them.double damage compared to HW one.

UBER SENTINAL- oh yes,the one from H2, kicks ass,plasma turret sort of thing kills infantry,then they have an ability to destroy vehicles(crush)and mega barrage aswell which does mega damage.sheilds at front stop most damage including anti air but flank and its super easy to kill.

all rebel units would also be much less pop and resoures,for example the uber sentinal would only be pop of 10.tech would also be lower as well.due to the fact after tech 3 they have practically no extra units.

this is only an idea but i want to see what you's think.

That was a very reasonable post Unbelievable. I'm impressed.

OK, here we go: You make a good point about the RPS system being irrelevant if it's nearly all infantry anyway, but I still think it could help.
They are just logical really (at least AOMs was anyway - archers are better against infantry than against cavalry, as cavalry can close the distance quickly etc.) I would just put it in sort of beneath the had-counter system you've got - it's not going to be important or influential or anything, just adds a bit more to the mix.

Yeah, I can live with flood in one game mode, I suppose, although I really don't think they would be a good player-controlled faction.

I'm not going to go into ways to make them different, as I really can't be bothered doing any more, just look through my other posts in this thread for ideas maybe. Like, I like my building system for covenant as opposed to the UNSC's, or the idea of dividing buildings for units according to what they counter rather than what they are. I also think that giving the UNSC snipers, but taking out flamers, and giving the covenant shield jackals, but taking out snipers could work. It's the only way to give the two factions variety in the infantry-counter-infantry bit AND give the UNSC the snipers that people have been crying out for.

I'm not sure that the Spectre is really necessary, we only see it in one game. Maybe make it leader-specific.

Covy building.teching up different would be nice. Different method of supply gathering would be good too.

Yep, I didn't really check specifics of each unit like level, so I didn't really realise.

 I think Hawks and Vamps should be different. They're not really similar. At all.

Rebelling sounds awesome!

Maybe not change the units so much though, although it could work with haloverse timeline, just make it the start of the heresy or "The Great Schism," or some rebellion.

Maybe make units cheaper, but techs and going up tech levels more expensive for heretics? That would actually sorta make sense. Lower pop cap as well maybe?

Veraam:

One with power = Corruption
Two with power = War

Ok, i have done it, i figured out out a way of making covi and unsc different,taking a note from HW. ok its building layout ill start as always with unsc.

At tech 0- they start with engineers and a mongoose. also an outpost that deploys engineers.(defenses are as before btw)

At tech 1- outposts can build mongooses, engineer can build a barracks and supply distributer(ill explain later,but works in the same way as supply pad)barracks can build marines,flamers,snipers.thats it.

At tech 2 - enginner can build vehicle depot,and field armory and outposts,and muntion stores,and oil supply pads(all explained later). At barracks  heavy troppers,cyclops,light mg team, AA and AT team and special forces become avaliable.in vehicle depot,warthhog and elephant become avaliable.

At tech 3- engineer can build hangers.in the barracks medics and heavy mg become avaliable,in vehicle depot,scorpions and in the hanger pelicans and hornets.

At tech 4-airborne become avaliable in barracks,in vehicle depot,wolves,gremlins,cobras.in hanger abatross(heavy transport) and hawks become avaliable.

At tech 5- engineers can build space uplink, in barracks the odsts become avaliable,in the vehicle depot - rhinos,grizzly space uplink-vulture.

not alot changes for unsc because they will act as the control,user friendly team,as for covi,things become a little different.

At tech 0-start with an engineer and a ghost,and an engineer den(on odst)this deploys engineers only.(defenses also remain the same for covi)

At tech 1-engineer can build a hall,this deploys grunts,short ranged jackels,ghosts and hunters,and light mg(this is a twist,sort of makes unsc defensive and covi rushers,or offensive,during tech one,hunters being the key)also engineers can build supply pads (or whatever there called in HW).

At tech 2 -engineer can build plasma conversion facility(also explained later),and Operations centre,this builds heavy infantry, heavy mg team, sniper jackels,spectres,and banshees.(banshees give the covi air advantage early game but there is counters  for them at this time ,unsc also have elephants aswell,hard choice.)also they build there outposts and tech lab of some sort.

At tech 3-engineers build reclaimation centre,this builds,special forces,AT team, AA team,medics,wraiths,shadows,locusts and phantoms.(covi and unsc mostly even off here but covi still have an ace up there slieve)

At tech 4- war factory-airborne,AA wraith,AT vehicle(still undecided),unit to equal grizzly t5,vampire,spirit,and some artilery unit.(massive wraith,tech 5)

At tech 5- all units are avaliable,scarab contruction facility,and special op elites,(in war factory),scarab also avaliable.

as you can see tech one to three each have a side with an advantage in this area,at tech 1 unsc are defensive and covi are offensive,in tech 2 unsc have the edge in infantry section,(with the elephant and special forces)but the covi own the skies and have better defenses(heavy mg teams,good vs infantry).in tech 3 things even off for unsc but covi gain extra vehicles(locust),in my terms these 3 techs are the stage of advantage.in the last 2 techs it evens out.i would compare this to the chess because you have no advantage over your enemy(like in chess) in an area and you must use more stratagy.

this i think this is brilliant, i have devised a way of making them different without changing them at all.what do you think of that kevinator,what your looking for,no need more,i have got another idea.

SUPPLIES-new supplies,for covi its sort of similar to old version.you have your supply pads,they generate resources.also you can find resources with your ghost,like normal,but now theres a new resource,plasma.plasma is costly to make.so it requires alot of resouces.(dont ask me how covi make plasma rifles).the plasma convestion facility creates it at the cost of resouces.plasma is added into the price of vehicles and aircraft.for example-wraith 600 supplys ,200 plasma 8 pop.ok heres the chain.first supplys are collected in warehouse.ever so often a fixed some of supplys,lets say 1000,(if you have it)is taken away and you recieve 500 plasma back.this is needed to buy some men and all vehicles and aircraft.

for unsc its much different.first you can collect supplys like normal,but when it comes to geting lots of supplys it different.first you must travel the map until you find a supply cache.this contains about 10000 supplys to 25000,then you press y on it and you start collecting it.not with a warthhog,oh no only a pacific unit can harvest it.ok heres the chain,first you find the supplys cache,press y,then two warthhogs(not selectable)drive out,pile supplys in the back (about 300 per hog) and drives back to the supply distributer,(looks like a garage with a warhouse to one side) this works like the harvesters in comand and conquer.it comes in a bit faster than covi but there is a risk collectors will be destroyed.to call collecters back,some return button is provided.

then munitions,work like supply pads,this is encluded in infantry and more vehicles than planes prices.

fuel is last, very expensive ,a supply pad with a fuel tank on thew side,every now and again supplys are taken for fuel,used more in planes than vehicles.example of munitions uses-scorpion= 600 resources,300 muntions, 100 fuel. example of fuel uses-pelican=500 resources,100 muntions 400 fuel.

another idea,makes tactical and makes differences beetween teams.

i think later ill go into detail about rebel, units,economy,bases and tech.

That's pretty cool. Did you look at my ideas for Covenant buildings? They were earlier in the thread, and I think they're pretty good. They might not work with your units though, but the general concept would probably be fairly adaptable. Or you could use them for the Rebels or something.

EDIT: I really like the supply idea for UNSC, only problem is: Why don't Covenant take them? 

Veraam:

One with power = Corruption
Two with power = War

I looked over your other posts ands  i think i got it covered,

New resource collection method-yes

Covi unsc differences-check

Not much flood-check

New building patterns-yes

Not much else i think.

Now,back to the rebels,firstly in general,they are not that good at being rebels,honestly,they sit there not doing anything rebel like.I know that sounds stupid but heres what im trying to get at.When i hear the word rebel,guerilla tactics,suicide missions,anoying, all combined make rebels.But,in HW they do little to nothing.This could be changed,ill start off with rebels.(then heritics,sentinals.and flood)

REBELS-rebels should always annoy players,rush being one way.moter bikes should be in groups of 3 and dotted around the map(roughly 4 groups,two each side)one group on each side should always go patroling,until it meets an enemy,then it follows it until it kills it or till death,if it kills it they should just go back to patroling.the other two groups should sit in a place where they wouldnt be found,near large amounts of supplies aswell,and when some mongoose comes along they come out and destroy it.almost as if the supplies were bait.this would really piss players off,because they would loose there mongoose and have to buy troops to kill the moterbikes.Then,when it reachs 3 minutes,one moterbike and 5 marines should attack there base,(on each side)this would really catch new players out,and if players dont have enough men around they will be in deep trouble.Now im going to skip on a bit and explain somthing very important,in roughly the corner,or centre,or somwhere hidden,there should be a rebel main base,this deploys more vehicles and air to battle.once this is destroyed,rebels should just fall back to a defendable poistion,or outpost or base.(the base on blood gulch is the main base,the others are normal,they deploy infantry and scouts) after the 3 minute rush is defeated,a rebel truck should be dropped off by a transport helicopter near a players base,(different locations every time)from here small suicide groups and troops should harass them,every now and again,no pacific patern.the truck should be defended by humveys snipr and special forces.after mid tech 2 things change,they have one last assualt,containing a tank or 2,humvey and men.Then they fall back,secure sectors,and dig in.men should always be reinforced after death,unless main base is destroyed.half way through tech 3 they counter attack,try to secure sectors and if that fails they just sit around there main base and side bases.transport helicopters would reinforce side bases,and gunships would go on patrol.at tech 4 they just turn to guerilla tactics.

HERITICS-are not rebels,they basically want to stop every one from starting the rings,so they guard forruner technolgy.along with elimanating the flood,i know some massive H fan is just going to correct me in 2 minutes,any way they firstly guard forurrner tech,build a base and side outposts,harrass enemy(including rebels).Ok early they rush once or twice,not bring in a outpost like rebels,(there rushes would contain bigger units like special forces and snipers and sentinals.mostly at early tech they secure hooks take them from players,this is done with shadows ,wraiths and soldiers at tech 1 and 2. at tech 3 they attack rebels if there on the map or go on patrol with a large enough force.(a wraith enough soldiers to survive a minute or two,other things too)phantoms should come off map and drop off a small patrol or two in random places in their territory,they should go on patrol,then try and capture small areas and defend them. banshee patrols are not too much to ask.at tech 4,uber units should harass all enemy,they should be accompained by super sentinals.(this patrol is never in large groups)after that its just defensive tactics(heritics hide when there main base is destroyed,mainly at hooks)

SENTINALS-on maps with sentinal vents,or deployers,they should simply destroy everthing.never large amounts on maps.starts off at offensive protecters,then normal sentinals,then super sentinals and rarely uber sentinals.there should always be a mixture of sentinals.

before i go onto flood,i have to clarify maps.one quarter should only have rebels or heritics or sentinals.another quarter should be flood based along with  either rebels or heritics or sentinals.one quarter should have no flood but 2 rebels. and one quarter should have all of them,(more than likely 3v3s and 2v2s,not 1v1s)

FLOOD-very different to other rebels because of one thing,they can capture territory,ill start from the start.Flood start locked up in a forunner containment facility,theycan be released for nothing,once there released they come out in flood infection waves,very rapid,once they touch infantry for 3 seconds there captured,andturn into flood,the only way to stop the flood is to close the containment facility,this can only be done 10 minutes after release.heritics always will be guarding it and after release will try to close it.once flood get out,they try to capture and consume everything in nearby territory,once they destroy all structures,it becomes flood controlled,it imidietly turns into a flood wasteland,flood tenticles pop up and flood hives and nests are everywhere,a really nightmare. now flood infections capture infantry,flood infantry can capture vehicles(jack)and air(exception with vutures,sentinals and scarabs).flood nests deploy flood swarms,thrasher forms,the big ones in H3,the ones that explode,the bomber form,all of them,anendless  amount of them.if that were to get out of hand god knows what could happen.flood infections should always be patroling in between flood plants,basically it looks like mission 9 in HW.on the edges of territory,flood ground should cut in abit and then fade.this is a designers nightmare id imagine,but it would be class.flood vehicles and air should have tenticles and plants growing out of them.flood always go for rebels first and once there killed destroy players.if you bring tanks and air in they will be captured and will turn against you,bad if that includes a load of rebel tanks.flying phantoms,spirits,abatrossesand pelicans would be near impossible.This idea is madness.

The Kelvinator:

EDIT: I really like the supply idea for UNSC, only problem is: Why don't Covenant take them? 

i thought that covi had to be different, covi supplies are easier to manage and you didnt have to baby sit the resource vehicles,but its more expensive to get plasma so it evens out.

The Kelvinator:

That's pretty cool. Did you look at my ideas for Covenant buildings? They were earlier in the thread, and I think they're pretty good. They might not work with your units though, but the general concept would probably be fairly adaptable.

Sorry,didnt read your post properly,there good ideas and i will most certainly use them in heritic construction.Even if there troops are very low in number,so let me get this straight,vehicles and air are in the same building and infantry are spread out.

They were, but that would probably need to be changed based on faction, as that was designed for a covenant with very different units.

It was more of a building system in which things were placed in buildings not just in terms of their type vehicle/air/infantry, but also based on roles.

Like, Mainline infantry (different grunt squads) in one place. Special forces infantry (jackals, hunters, drones could go here or special air, probably here) in another. Elite's/Brute's would probably be separate to other infantry. Mainline vehicles (ghost, wraith) in one building, special vehicles in another (locust? scarab?). Mainline air (shees) in one building, special air in another (vamps). You could probably combine the mainline air building with the mainline vehicles building, and the special air building with the special vehicles building, as Covenant don't have very many air units or vehicles. And I think it would be a pretty cool system anyway =P

I didn't mean so much that Covenant should be able to take the UNSC resources, more that you need to give some reason why they can't, because it wouldn't make sense to just let your enemies gather resources and not take them for yourself.

Also, your description of heretics/rebels now sounds like they're an AI, I thought we got to control them if we rebelled? 

And yeah, you've covered it pretty well, although I think there's probably too many units in total now. 

EDIT: Did you check my ideas for subfactions? I think they're pretty good. They're about the same time in the thread. 

Veraam:

One with power = Corruption
Two with power = War

The Kelvinator:

I didn't mean so much that Covenant should be able to take the UNSC resources, more that you need to give some reason why they can't, because it wouldn't make sense to just let your enemies gather resources and not take them for yourself.

Also, your description of heretics/rebels now sounds like they're an AI, I thought we got to control them if we rebelled? 

EDIT: Did you check my ideas for subfactions? I think they're pretty good. They're about the same time in the thread. 

I thought you meant the system,sorry.So your question is why cant covi capture these resources,well its because they would have to transport them. in HW they are simply added to your resources,that still happens in this one but these are not normal resources.they are the size of big crates in H3,I can imagine a warthhog slowly being able to transport them but ghosts,prowlers and spectres ,i just simply cant.does that answer your question.maybe the covi could be able to destroy there resource crates.

now i have confused you,i was describing an AI because rebels come under AI but when you rebel you get your own set of rebels,your base is replaced by rebels and units would also be replaced by rebels, you cant be flood or sentinals.now do you see, when you rebel in a 3v3 its because you hate who your with and your going to try win another way,or its because your team is not helping you.you will become rebels when you do this but there will still be other AI rebels on the map.I only wrote about AI rebels is because they do nothing at all and i wanted that changed,now your practically fighting another team,or even 2 or 3 once you get the better of them there gonners.

I seen the ideas of having different armies within the same team,but i douth it would work because in the end all units join the brutes,but you could still bring it into campaign.

Not all the units joined the Brutes.

During the Great Schism, there were non-elite/brutes on each side.

Would we possibly have the option of starting off a rebel/heretic faction, instead of having to turn on our team to become them, but still be able to turn on our team but it doesn't change the faction at all because we're already rebels/heretics? 

Because if we could play as heretics, I would.

Veraam:

One with power = Corruption
Two with power = War

I know,BUT in H2 only a few joined the eltes,hunters and grunts and in H3 they were with the brutes.so elites were deserted.

the only way the heritic and rebels are selectable is if there was a mode where you can select it to be limited to tech 3,actually if you can select the tech before match making,eg standerd,1v1,chasms,tech 2 limit.Then you could be heritic but you cant customise them or use them in a tech 4 or 5 game.

Or maybe just all the grunts/hunters/etc. that joined the Elites died?
Or we just didn't see them?

I mean, we barely even saw Elites, and there can't have been that many survivors of The Great Schism.

Also, as long as it's set during The Great Schism, the Elites can have grunts etc. anyway. 

Veraam:

One with power = Corruption
Two with power = War

Veraam:

One with power = Corruption
Two with power = War

Not what i was posting about,i didnt know that HW2 is going to be set in H2 thats going to be comlicated.

Ok im going to do the rebels in chunks because im busy right now.

POWER- barrage from an AC130 gunship over an area for 20 seconds.

BUILDINGS-supply yard,(has helicopters landing in it droping supplies)antenna(tech up system,like temple but more expensive,and has a propogada ablity,this is where a halo song of players choice is played so ever other player can hear it,during this time 20% attack bonus)at tech 1 rebel barracks,(infantry)and a factory(vehicles and air)and a fuel depot(continueously goes up slowly at no cost,rebels have a simple economy)

DEFENCES- rubble baricade,sandbags tech 1 ,chaingun behind sandbags,at tech 2 a turret that is like the covi shade just with two mgs and rockets.

REBEL SOLDIERS- same,upgrades-rocket,newblood,shotgun(short range),emp frag(stuns vehicles,stolen unsc prototype technology)tech1

REBEL SNIPERS-2 long range,upgrades-camoflauge,(invisable when still),c4,(placed on vehicles,damages them badly)bonoculars,(alows one of the snipers to have double range for a short period,other gives targets)tech1

SUICIDE REBELS- same as grunts.good vs everything other than air.tech 2 unit.,

SPECIAL FORCES-a heavily armored robot with a chain gun.slow but deadly,isnt affected by flood.tech 2 unit.

AA/AT TEAM-shoots air with missiles,armor with rockets.tech 2 unit.upgrades-trip mine,mortar barrage,(good vs light vehicles and infantry)

MOTERBIKE-already explained.tech 0 unit.

JEEP-anti infantry,flares to avoid rockets.tech 2 or 1 but at one it causes problems.