Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

Last post 07-05-2009, 8:04 AM by Jeremy W. 14 replies.
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  •  04-16-2009, 1:20 PM 552623

    Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    Here's a link (http://www.halowars.com/forums/permalink/519787/552222/ShowThread.aspx#552222) to the post I made in the Y-button thread, which I feels deserves its own look.

    I'll highlight the most important part by quoting it again, here (now edited for clarity):

    As it stands, the right trigger lets you jump through groups of same-type units you have selected at a time. If you have one unit type selected or no units selected at all, it does nothing. This should be changed! I am not proposing it do something when no units are selected, but what I am proposing is that it do something when only units of a specific type are selected.

    The idea is that you should easily be able to cycle through your selected units of one type using the right trigger. If I have four tanks selected, right trigger should allow me to jump through them to give them four unique orders, e.g. Y-button specials, much in the same way you can jump through groups if you have more than one unit type selected. This allows the user to easily micro group specials without having to deal with selecting specific units. There will be some "randomness" in which unit is where in the array, but I think this is better than nothing.

    A simple example for clarification: Let's say you have a mixed army of Scorpions and Flamethrowers and you end up in a battle strictly against Hunters. You double-tap A on a Flamer - thus selecting them all - and move them to the front to soak up what damage they can. From there you can tap right trigger -> Y-button special with one, tap right trigger -> Y-button special with another one, etc.

    This would require some slight changes in the GUI to accommodate for multiple "groups" of a single unit when only a single unit type is selected - probably something that could be solved using a fraction of the space rather than displaying an entire square for each unit, but that's assuming people like this alternative.

    Obviously Robot doesn't see Y-tap/Y-hold as a strong solution here as it changes how the game plays, making it clunkier for users who don't want to micro in this way. This alternative offers no immediate changes, but rather a fairly simple addition which more or less solves the issue at hand.

     

    Actually, since I added even more text to that box, here's the quote for people who really hate reading:

    The idea is that you should easily be able to cycle through your selected units of one type using the right trigger. If I have four tanks selected, right trigger should allow me to jump through them to give them four unique orders, e.g. Y-button specials, much in the same way you can jump through groups if you have more than one unit type selected. This allows the user to easily micro group specials without having to deal with selecting specific units. There will be some "randomness" in which unit is where in the array, but I think this is better than nothing.

    A simple example for clarification: Let's say you have a mixed army of Scorpions and Flamethrowers and you end up in a battle strictly against Hunters. You double-tap A on a Flamer - thus selecting them all - and move them to the front to soak up what damage they can. From there you can tap right trigger -> Y-button special with one, tap right trigger -> Y-button special with another one, etc.

    Given the few replies, here's a question:

    Why doesn't the right trigger allow me to toggle through individual units when I only have one group selected?

    This change would make microing specials so much easier.

  •  04-16-2009, 1:59 PM 552664 in reply to 552623

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    They should make the game utilise the messenger kit keyboard to put in hot keys and shift etc.
  •  04-16-2009, 2:04 PM 552672 in reply to 552664

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    Gravolluth:They should make the game utilise the messenger kit keyboard to put in hot keys and shift etc.

    Eh, but then people who really want to be competitive are forced to adopt said clunkier scheme, not to mention buy the pad.

    I imagine that was in reference to this (below), which I just edited out to focus the thread?

    Also, one last idea:

    I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out a good way to implement some kind of "shift" feature - as on the computer - such that I could click and highlight multiple different units without being forced to do something wonky with the paintbrush or moving units.

    Given the right trigger currently doesn't have a function when no units are selected, it might be handy to have holding the right trigger enable this "shift" key. Initially I thought having it only work when no units are selected, but it could even be enabled when units are selected as it merely affects which grouped units are being given orders, and rather not which units are ultimately selected.

  •  04-16-2009, 2:10 PM 552684 in reply to 552672

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    they could do both. i know the messenger kit means more money but it would allow unit grouping, shift and even a way of selecting unit's to be built with out going to the base.

  •  04-16-2009, 2:42 PM 552720 in reply to 552684

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    Gravolluth:

    they could do both. i know the messenger kit means more money but it would allow unit grouping, shift and even a way of selecting unit's to be built with out going to the base.

    I just can't imagine them doing that given they're trying to make a very friendly, console RTS. More realistically I can see them changing the controls within the limits of the controller, and that's what I'd prefer be focus on. Let's be realistic, heh.

    So yeah, right trigger to toggle through individual units when only one type is selected. Yay or nay?

  •  04-16-2009, 6:53 PM 553153 in reply to 552720

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    Thanks for the suggestion.  We looked at this during dev.  It was scuttled due to the transient nature of combat.  People would have multiple unit types selected and RT would work a certain way.  One of the unit types would die and then people would suddenly be issuing commands to only part of their units.

    There were some fixes for that, but all of them depended on people really knowing what state they were in.  I suppose I could us doing this as an option for the hardcore folks, but it would be really punitive for fine gentlemen to have this work by default.  They'd end up with units strung out all over the map w/o knowing why selection suddenly started working differently.

    dave


    Dave Pottinger
    Lead Designer, Halo Wars
  •  04-16-2009, 9:55 PM 553515 in reply to 553153

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    I would - and as per the Y-button thread I imagine many would - really appreciate any special-microing fix you guys can come up with, even if it's just an control addition toggled in the options menu. I just wanna stop over-killing units, guys! Let me have that!

    Thanks again!

  •  05-04-2009, 6:53 PM 577332 in reply to 553515

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    I must say I really, really like the idea proposed by OP.

    Always outnumbered, never outgunned.

  •  06-30-2009, 9:01 AM 639630 in reply to 553515

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    Digital Limit:

    I would - and as per the Y-button thread I imagine many would - really appreciate any special-microing fix you guys can come up with, even if it's just an control addition toggled in the options menu. I just wanna stop over-killing units, guys! Let me have that!

    Thanks again!

    hey guys (and mods), I had an idea... what if u use the right trigger as normal and select all of one unit type, say 12 marines, and you only wanted 6 rockets then implement a system where you hold the y button over an enemy unit (instant, not delayed and locked on to that unit) and have a circular dial/ring appear around the cross hair and move your left stick around clockwise, highlighting the ring as you go round. The more you highlight the ring, the more specials you select then release when you get to about 6 o'clock in which case you would have selected 6 rocket attacks and simply release the y button to execute the order.    Also, just imagine this being really fast, i've tried to explain slowly. And if your wondering about the order in which the units are selected then would say closest.

    If you  know your unist are still on their way to reach the target then WAIT till your close! (that solves the moving units prob a bit)

    More ideas... In addition, double tapping x and/or y on a unit that really needs to be delt with by any means necessary should make that unit a high priority target. And holding down x over terrain should bring up a mini (very transparent) circle menu with unit behavior options for that area.

     


    Jeremy W =)
  •  06-30-2009, 9:23 AM 639640 in reply to 639630

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    can't we use the left trigger as a shift key ?

    Leave the groeps like they are . But can robot make it so when you select a group of the same units that if you press the Y button just 1 unit fires his special abillety and when you tap once more a other unit in the same group shoots his Y ability.


    (c)2010
  •  07-01-2009, 12:19 AM 640766 in reply to 639640

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    Yup, that could work. The x4 scroll speed function of the left trigger could surely be moved to the left stick when its pressed in. That would free up the left trigger for something like a shift key function.    Actual, this idea sounds heaps better than mine. Hey Dave, could this work?

     


    Jeremy W =)
  •  07-02-2009, 5:39 AM 641944 in reply to 640766

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    I have a concept (edited picture) of what I was thinking but I don't know how to post images on this site??? Im using a mac, how do I get the pic on here?     
    Jeremy W =)
  •  07-02-2009, 6:43 AM 641956 in reply to 641944

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    but then the flair would go away when you move it tho the left tumb stick.

    it's a never ending probllem. 


    (c)2010
  •  07-03-2009, 8:51 AM 643084 in reply to 641956

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

    darkbelg:

    but then the flair would go away when you move it tho the left tumb stick.

    it's a never ending probllem. 

    No it will work, just move the flare to the 'back' button. Whatever the back button does can merged in with the start menu.   I VOTE THIS A TOP CONSIDERATION!

    heres another idea for micro management (in combination with my specials dial/circle) ...  holding in the right trigger fans selected unit types out in a circle menu (it being far more transparent than a normal circle menu) rather than down the bottom of the screen. I think the right stick could dictate this kind of menu but maybe leave it as an option.      Does this sound feasible?  


    Jeremy W =)
  •  07-05-2009, 8:04 AM 644945 in reply to 643084

    Re: Alternative to Y-button fix: the R-trigger fix

     Is this pic visible?

      


    Jeremy W =)
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