I don't see why people are upset about Ander's research time being nerfed.  The other Leader's economic bonuses not only save them less resources per game typically, but do not save them any significant amount of time.  Forge's time saved simply gives him a little extra resources on top of the 100, and and Cutter doesn't save any time at all unless you intend to be building Hogs constantly.  Anders, on the other hand, saves minutes of time from unit production buildings.

Cutter: 400 for first base, 300 for each following, results in 400-1000 worth of savings and half a Hog worth of build time

Forge: 100 for each Heavy Supply, results in 400-1000 worth of savings, plus an extra 200 or so for the time saved.

Anders: 125-450 per tech researched, results in 750-2500 worth of savings, plus 1-4 minutes worth of build time from unit production facilities.

There is no contest guessing which is better.  Forge might have the advantage that his bonus is for building generic economy and can thus its yield can be spent on anything, that Anders' bonus is restricted to techs is a small price to pay.

Balance changes:: 

1.  Gauss warthog gauss cannon damage bonus against units with heavy armor (Scorpions, Wraiths, Scarabs, Locusts) reduced so that tanks will stay as a viable option to counter warthogs.  Fair enough, reduce guass a tad bit.  But still keep it an option for unsc, its preaty much all they got against cov.  Personally i own any kind of warthog rush.

2.  Warthog build time slightly increased to restrict how fast players can mass and replace warthogs during the game. Once again, no reason to do this to warthogs. i would quit playing if this ever happend.  Seriously unsc would suck so much and the game would be thrown in the complete wrong direction, towards the fine gentlemen that dont even play.

3.  Anders bonus to tech build rate reduced to further balance the leader.  I dont even know what that means? but dont do it.

4.  Base turrets attack and health boosted slightly to increase turret viability in early and late game.  Increase turretling is not fun either, you need to think along the lines as a top stragetic game and not a fine gentlemen playground.   The game is fine You dont need these giant changes, especially for guass.

5.  Elephant health increased to improve survivability and viability as a unit.  I would like to see the elephant fixed.  I thought make the turrets on it the same as the chain gun spartan, since after all they are the same weapon, and slight very slight health increase.

6.  Grenade/ Plasma grenade / RPG damage against medium armor (warthogs, ghosts, choppers, wolverines and cobras) increased to both better balance marines/ grunts against warthogs and to improve marines overall against players who try to turtle with wolverines and cobras.  WHoa whoa whoa. That is just silly!!! Vehicles are supposed to own infrantry.  Let me just say that infrantry are still the best units in the game.  They were since the start of the game and i still use them alll the time.

7.  Recycle basic cost return fixed to be 50% for constructed buildings.  (While a technically a bug, this directly impacts many slightly exploitive strategies)  This one i oppose the most... I thought your recycle style was perfect, it actually added some inovation to the game.  Whenever it loses hitpoints it decreases in wealth, its brilliant! 

 Turrets are already a pain in the butt and stop any warthog rush for up to 6 minutes. They dont need boosting. I think the dev team needs to try again for a patch because this one isnt to good. it would send the game downhill. Just play me and i will show up warthogs are crap and infantry are already the best. 

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Clan-BTB Bogart that Blunt
Must smoke trees
I vote to ban little kids

wodan460:

I don't see why people are upset about Ander's research time being nerfed.  The other Leader's economic bonuses not only save them less resources per game typically, but do not save them any significant amount of time.  Forge's time saved simply gives him a little extra resources on top of the 100, and and Cutter doesn't save any time at all unless you intend to be building Hogs constantly.  Anders, on the other hand, saves minutes of time from unit production buildings.

Cutter: 400 for first base, 300 for each following, results in 400-1000 worth of savings and half a Hog worth of build time

Forge: 100 for each Heavy Supply, results in 400-1000 worth of savings, plus an extra 200 or so for the time saved.

Anders: 125-450 per tech researched, results in 750-2500 worth of savings, plus 1-4 minutes worth of build time from unit production facilities.

There is no contest guessing which is better.  Forge might have the advantage that his bonus is for building generic economy and can thus its yield can be spent on anything, that Anders' bonus is restricted to techs is a small price to pay.

 

Forge has the best economic bonus, there's no debating that fact. It's not about the 100 you save building your Heavies, it's the fact that you have them and their increased production from the start...

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zIP r i n c eIz

MeatShield:

everyone knows prince is the best

TrUe SkiilL TM:

jomazq:I can't possibly know whether you, Trueskill or Kinslayer, know more.  I would submit: A race car driver need not know anything more than how to drive well to be successful.  We as gamers can theorize and hypothesize all we like, but truly these games we play are incredibly complex structures whether they're good, fun, or cool.  The effects of these changes cannot be known until they are realised in play.  I suspect the infantry buff will play to my favor as cutter and that the warthog nerf would be neutral to me, as I employ them offensively very infrequently. 

Okay, to take your example. If changes to a race care were to be implemented, the professional driver will be able to understand and predict the effects of these changes far more accurately than the guy who drives it about every now and then.

There is a history of drivers admittedly not being able to understand engineering changes under the hood of their own cars except for discussing them in terms of how they must adjust their driving, thereafter.  I only mean to state that one may be intellectually advanced on a subject and yet not perform in said activity and the vice versa can be true, as well. 

TRSF Vagas:This is all Human Stuff what about the Overpowerd Covie Leaders and the Cheap Grav Lifts They need to do something about that its a completely out of wack. Im fine about Grav lifts though but they shouldn't be able to do it in combat its cheap! I use Guass Hogs to defend against these but know they kill that so i need a new plan to protect my bases without using so much reasourses. Plus i was using Stasis on PoR and all he did is grav away and came back every 5 min it was complety ***!

He came back every 5 MINUTES?!?!?!  And you didn't have anything to defend yourself after those every 5 MINUTES?!?!?!

 

Come on... 

WaffenSS Killer:

All of these changes sound great.  A couple more additions:

1.  Do not let a spartan upgrade a Grizzly.  They are too dominant.

2.  Let multiple base turretts build at the same time

3. If a base is unlocked, disperse units at a quicker rate

4. Add Scarab defense against Cutter's mac blast. It should weaken is significantly, but the scarab is useless against Cutter.

5. Add gauss cannon upgrade (or another cannon) to Ghost

6. Let Covenant build scout unit from base, not factory

7. Add better covenant counter to Grizzlies

8. Allow Vampires to stasis drain buildings and turretts

9.  Allow upgraded PoR cannons to have increased damage on the Arbiter

But... all those only make the Covenant Stronger. They make Covs OP...

Well Covenant gets overpowered late game.  If you are making the turrets stronger,  early rushes will be stifled.  The vampires are a good air counter, but they are useless otherwise.  If you are countering a very large unit of hawks and defeat them with large unit of Vampires, you cannot counter attack your opponent's base.  A group of Grizzlies is unbeatable if your leader is dead.  Also, if your opponent sneaks up on your Ghost early and destroys it, you are screwed (where another Warthog can be created quickly to gather resources).  The Cutter/Scarab issue is important.  If you spend 20 units and a long time/3000 resources to build it, you cant have it dead instantly with a Mac Blast.  The Scarab is too slow to avoid it.

 

wodan460:

I don't see why people are upset about Ander's research time being nerfed.  The other Leader's economic bonuses not only save them less resources per game typically, but do not save them any significant amount of time.  Forge's time saved simply gives him a little extra resources on top of the 100, and and Cutter doesn't save any time at all unless you intend to be building Hogs constantly.  Anders, on the other hand, saves minutes of time from unit production buildings.

Cutter: 400 for first base, 300 for each following, results in 400-1000 worth of savings and half a Hog worth of build time

Forge: 100 for each Heavy Supply, results in 400-1000 worth of savings, plus an extra 200 or so for the time saved.

Anders: 125-450 per tech researched, results in 750-2500 worth of savings, plus 1-4 minutes worth of build time from unit production facilities.

There is no contest guessing which is better.  Forge might have the advantage that his bonus is for building generic economy and can thus its yield can be spent on anything, that Anders' bonus is restricted to techs is a small price to pay.

Thank you for putting up the stats Wodan.

That's exactly what I mean. Even with an Anders nerf I do not think she is suffering much. I have never feared a "tank rush" (impossible to "rush" with tanks in my opinion) from Forge at all. Not with Cutter, not with any Covenant leader. I have played against a great many excellent Forge players and I do not believe it to be a problem. I do not believe Tank rushing is going to be the next big problem. It is easily feasible to mount a proper defense and counter attack against Forge players who "rush" with tanks and I do not believe it to be an impediment to any other leader in defeating them.

I agree with someone who said units from a locked base should leave the base quicker. Way too slow and the player can just focus fire quickly on the unit that comes out, then the next, then the next.

If your going to fix anything fix the trueskill system so we top 20 players can actually level up.

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Clan-BTB Bogart that Blunt
Must smoke trees
I vote to ban little kids

sagna:

the more you nerf this game the worse it will get. One overpowered unit falls another will rise.  since the last nerf you lost half of your players if you go through and nerf the hogs and not guass i will quit this game and when i do i bring all good players with me. then you can deal with bad people making random complaints because they are terrible.

 

bring the prophet speed back and make blessed immolation cost 600. nerf guass dammage against heavy armor and you got a good game.   give cutter something usefull and be creative. an elephant cost just as much as a leader but has no enough health and deals no damage

i was just reading this and was kinda annoyed

1st of all you are not important nobody wil care if you stop playing noby will follow you.

2nd by increasing speed and increasing cost of blessed imolation, the POR is unbalanced.

3rd elephants can kill marines unless their are more than 2-5 squads

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steps for victory: covie
1) 10 anti air
2) 10 anti vehicle
3) 10 anti infantry
4) leader

Adamzzz:I agree with someone who said units from a locked base should leave the base quicker. Way too slow and the player can just focus fire quickly on the unit that comes out, then the next, then the next.

There's a way to do this, you just have to figure it out.

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zIP r i n c eIz

MeatShield:

everyone knows prince is the best

Timotron:

I am involving the community a little bit earlier in the process this time around and sharing the first pass balance changes that we are testing internally at the moment.  

Your feedback and discussion are welcome as long as everyone stays polite and gracious to each other.  This thread will be heavily moderated so that we get the best feedback, so if your post gets removed, please try to rephrase it in a more constructive manner.

Caveat: The balance items are still somewhat in flux and as such I am not posting the exact numbers we are testing but rather the general balance ideas we are testing.  note: We will share final numbers when the title update is closer to completion when we write the final title update notes.

 

Balance changes:: 

1.  Gauss warthog gauss cannon damage bonus against units with heavy armor (Scorpions, Wraiths, Scarabs, Locusts) reduced so that tanks will stay as a viable option to counter warthogs.

2.  Warthog build time slightly increased to restrict how fast players can mass and replace warthogs during the game.

3.  Anders bonus to tech build rate reduced to further balance the leader.

4.  Base turrets attack and health boosted slightly to increase turret viability in early and late game.

5.  Elephant health increased to improve survivability and viability as a unit.

6.  Grenade/ Plasma grenade / RPG damage against medium armor (warthogs, ghosts, choppers, wolverines and cobras) increased to both better balance marines/ grunts against warthogs and to improve marines overall against players who try to turtle with wolverines and cobras.

7.  Recycle basic cost return fixed to be 50% for constructed buildings.  (While a technically a bug, this directly impacts many slightly exploitive strategies)

yay!

hey

timotron or aloysius,

can we please have a comment on whether or not you think gremlins will still make anders a balanced leader. And if so, can you please explain so, because I think it is slightly unfair because it is a counter vehicle/turret and forge gets next to nothing compared to that.  I personally think that a cyclops buff would be out of the question, just a tweak so that it increases health while in y ability lockdown, where it heals faster  but cannot move (similar to cobras)

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Crunk Aint Dead

A few notes from my POV:

 Mentioned elsewhere, but the cutter mac blast in Reinforcments mode really needs fixed...

I'm a little concerned about the RPG/Sticky damage increase for infantry against scouts... the problem is still that you can have 30 Marines and their rockets will still only hit 1 hog unless you micro them beyond belief, meanwhile the hog spammer is still just clicking two or three different locations while his hogs run around.  And if you're a covenent player then your sticky grenades rarely hit a moving hog anyways.  IMHO a slight buff to the actual damage dealt from infantry to scouts (which they're supposed to counter) needs to occur to offset the huge ability gap necessary to effectively micro marines against hogs... that or just have extra Marines/grunts launch their RPG's/Stickies at other units.  It would be nice to command a group of Marines to fire on hogs and watch them take down 4 or 5 instead of 1.

 The tweaks to Anders and Cutter sound GREAT, bringing Anders down closer to Forge's level and bringing Cutter up.  

 I would also like to voice my support for points being assigned based on damage done to a building instead of only the buildings dealt the death blow.

 

TrUe SkiilL TM:

Adamzzz:I agree with someone who said units from a locked base should leave the base quicker. Way too slow and the player can just focus fire quickly on the unit that comes out, then the next, then the next.

There's a way to do this, you just have to figure it out.

And what you're referring to is a glitch, plain and simple, and should be fixed. 

 I completely agree that units should evacuate faster from a base, when I imagine Marines evacuating a base to take on an enemy I see them lining up right behind each other on the way out, not filing out one group at a time w/ a ton of spacing.  At least drop more outside of the base, who cares about realism, I need my units out when I need them out.

Turret increases will be a great addition... maybe I'll actually build some again.  

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Watch FJ and JJ's music video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DSxr-xSiqc&NR=1

My thread for Halo Wars newbies:
http://www.halowars.com/forums/thread/627837.aspx

TrUe SkiilL TM:

Adamzzz:I agree with someone who said units from a locked base should leave the base quicker. Way too slow and the player can just focus fire quickly on the unit that comes out, then the next, then the next.

There's a way to do this, you just have to figure it out.

In which case....care to tell me how? ;D