MangyForestCat:

sagna:

please be smart about the game.  think about the good players and not the bad ones. the good players play to win and not for fun. winning is fun. learning a new game over again isn't. guass nerf is the only thing needed for a more dynamic game. you already made the prophet useless don't make anders useless too. she needs the upgrade speed to win don't nerf it or she is worse than cutter

Sagna, you need to the STFU.

Even with a Gauss nerf Anders will still be OP. She needs to be nerfed in order to encourage variety. Nobody uses anything but Anders in top level play. You need to understand that Robot isn't doing this for the top level players only. This is for everybody. You're being a jackass if you don't think this is a good thing for every other leader. It will make them more viable and will ultimately create more variety in the choices of leader. We don't have that as it stands right now.

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gt= I Sagna I
Legit Logic clan founder
Halo Wars legend
"sis I can't give you a hug im microing"

MangyForestCat:

 

Even with a Gauss nerf Anders will still be OP. She needs to be nerfed in order to encourage variety. Nobody uses anything but Anders in top level play. You need to understand that Robot isn't doing this for the top level players only. This is for everybody. You're being a jackass if you don't think this is a good thing for every other leader. It will make them more viable and will ultimately create more variety in the choices of leader. We don't have that as it stands right now.

 

But why would Anders be OP after the Gauss nerf? Once Gauss is nerfed I'm going to switch to Forge because I can't exploit Gauss anymore - and that's all Anders was used for for most of the top players. Again - once Gauss is nerfed, Anders is perfectly balanced.

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zIP r i n c eIz

MeatShield:

everyone knows prince is the best

jomazq:

I would submit there are dynamics which come into or out of focus at all levels of play, not to mention number of players, and game type.  All of which, ideally, would be addressed at some point.

One of the smartest postings I've read so far on this thread. Yes, there are touches in this upcoming patch that influence all manners of play. Not just 1vs1 Standard but also the Deathmatch and DLC Strategic Options modes. It affects all gametypes and the people like Sagna and True Skill are not helping by calling upon their so called "higher experience" with the game to influence what the developers are doing. We do not need to listen to just what the top level players are wanting. Almost every one sees that the low level RPS is completely unbalanced towards vehicle/air and infantry are killed by both.

TrUe SkiilL TM wrote the following post at 06-10-2009 8:16 PM:

MangyForestCat:

 

Even with a Gauss nerf Anders will still be OP. She needs to be nerfed in order to encourage variety. Nobody uses anything but Anders in top level play. You need to understand that Robot isn't doing this for the top level players only. This is for everybody. You're being a jackass if you don't think this is a good thing for every other leader. It will make them more viable and will ultimately create more variety in the choices of leader. We don't have that as it stands right now.

 

 

 

But why would Anders be OP after the Gauss nerf? Once Gauss is nerfed I'm going to switch to Forge because I can't exploit Gauss anymore - and that's all Anders was used for for most of the top players. Again - once Gauss is nerfed, Anders is perfectly balanced.

 

ONCE GAUSS IS NERFED, ANDERS IS PERFECTLY BALANCED

There. You said it, not me. So, as of now, she is not balanced, meaning that you AGREE WITH A GAUSS NERF. Or, you want Anders to stay OP. Pick your Poison

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Praise the Lord

TrUe SkiilL TM:

Kinslayer:

TrUe SkiilL TM:

I wish the Devs would listen to the people who knew their stuff, not the players that visit the forums and complain more than study the actual mechanics of the game.

I wish the "top players" realize that they are but a tiny fraction of the overall population of any game including Halo Wars. If these things are causing issues for the majority of the player base then it's the developers responsibility to do something about it. The "top players" can adapt just fine with whatever since they are after all "good".

TLDR: Top players are a tiny fraction of the population, they don't get the priority since they have the skills to adapt if something breaks. 

Come on now... do what mommy taught you ...learn to share :) 

 Top players don't account for a lot of the population. I'm not asking for changing to suit us. But you have to acknowledge we know a lot about the game and know what will actually change the game and what only seems to change the game. Everyone is getting excited about this infantry buff, but it won't change anything. Whereas changes like the Hog build speed, no one seems to care about it like it won't change anything but it will alter the game most of all.

I totally agree with what you're saying. Top players should be consulted for sure. This is something I believe Robot does (at least most game devs do). Your input is highly valuable and is most certainly part of the decision making process. 

BUT

What the top players need to understand as well is that they don't see the whole picture. Some top players are focused on 1v1...some on 2v2 and others on 3v3. Some play all game modes equally...some don't touch some of them. Your input is for the most part confined to that game type you're playing but it has implications on other game types. 

Robot has insane amounts of data that they can consult for their decisions. Every single game (and we're in the millions now) gets recorded. They can pull out reports correlating the effectiveness of one unit and the number of wins a person has. They have raw data that we can never even come close to providing however good we are, since we are still siloed in our game types, people we regularly play with and circles (battlegames/etc) we hang out in.

Balance is not all about raw numbers of course, there's a large human factor in it. That's where YOU come in. You identify issues and certain tactics, they bring out the numbers to verify your statements and get a more complete picture of the impact of that issue over the entire population of the game. They listen to your solutions, but for every solution, they verify it first, test it, tweak it, accept/reject it. 

To conclude... top players are part of the decision making process, but not a deciding factor by any stretch of the imagination. Bad players are not either, they have even less of an impact since their claims are usually very quickly discarded by the data Robot has. 

The best we can do now is to try and bring up logical arguments against a change we believe will be bad. If you see something in there that has the potential (from your experience and knowledge of the game mechanics) to be exploited, then that's the time to say it. Give out ideas for strategies that could be built around these changes and end up being exploitable. That's priceless stuff :)

 

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www.halowarslounge.com - News, Strategies and just general Halo Wars lovin'!

“I’m not in this world to live up to your expectations and you’re not in this world to live up to mine.”
“Showing off is the fool’s idea of glory.”
- Bruce Lee

 put something constructive not meaningless you know nothing of the game.  once guass is taken into a nerf. forge can go back to tank spam and covenant can win late game.  guass problem only came because prophet can no longer stop the third reactor.  me and my team are making a site to help less experience people

http://www.teamindecisive.ca/

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gt= I Sagna I
Legit Logic clan founder
Halo Wars legend
"sis I can't give you a hug im microing"

TrUe SkiilL TM:

Kinslayer:

TrUe SkiilL TM:

I wish the Devs would listen to the people who knew their stuff, not the players that visit the forums and complain more than study the actual mechanics of the game.

I wish the "top players" realize that they are but a tiny fraction of the overall population of any game including Halo Wars. If these things are causing issues for the majority of the player base then it's the developers responsibility to do something about it. The "top players" can adapt just fine with whatever since they are after all "good".

TLDR: Top players are a tiny fraction of the population, they don't get the priority since they have the skills to adapt if something breaks. 

Come on now... do what mommy taught you ...learn to share :) 

 Top players don't account for a lot of the population. I'm not asking for changing to suit us. But you have to acknowledge we know a lot about the game and know what will actually change the game and what only seems to change the game. Everyone is getting excited about this infantry buff, but it won't change anything. Whereas changes like the Hog build speed, no one seems to care about it like it won't change anything but it will alter the game most of all.

I can't possibly know whether you, Trueskill or Kinslayer, know more.  I would submit: A race car driver need not know anything more than how to drive well to be successful.  We as gamers can theorize and hypothesize all we like, but truly these games we play are incredibly complex structures whether they're good, fun, or cool.  The effects of these changes cannot be known until they are realised in play.  I suspect the infantry buff will play to my favor as cutter and that the warthog nerf would be neutral to me, as I employ them offensively very infrequently. 

This thread is becoming a huge argument. People need to realise:

 

Highly ranked players aren't trying to say that lower ranked players don't account for anything. I personally am trying to convey my views on what I think is appropriate and inappropriate. A part of what I believe to be inappropriate is the Hog build time and the Anders nerf. I've already said I won't be using Anders as much once Gauss is nerfed, so I'm not being biased.

 

There will be consequences for such changes that players with less experience can't see. People can't argue with the fact that players with more skill/experience can gauge the effects of things in more depth than some guy with 60 hours of play.

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zIP r i n c eIz

MeatShield:

everyone knows prince is the best

All of these changes sound great.  A couple more additions:

1.  Do not let a spartan upgrade a Grizzly.  They are too dominant.

2.  Let multiple base turretts build at the same time

3. If a base is unlocked, disperse units at a quicker rate

4. Add Scarab defense against Cutter's mac blast. It should weaken is significantly, but the scarab is useless against Cutter.

5. Add gauss cannon upgrade (or another cannon) to Ghost

6. Let Covenant build scout unit from base, not factory

7. Add better covenant counter to Grizzlies

8. Allow Vampires to stasis drain buildings and turretts

9.  Allow upgraded PoR cannons to have increased damage on the Arbiter

my reply was to the forest cat dude not anyone else no disrespect to kingslayer

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gt= I Sagna I
Legit Logic clan founder
Halo Wars legend
"sis I can't give you a hug im microing"

jomazq:I can't possibly know whether you, Trueskill or Kinslayer, know more.  I would submit: A race car driver need not know anything more than how to drive well to be successful.  We as gamers can theorize and hypothesize all we like, but truly these games we play are incredibly complex structures whether they're good, fun, or cool.  The effects of these changes cannot be known until they are realised in play.  I suspect the infantry buff will play to my favor as cutter and that the warthog nerf would be neutral to me, as I employ them offensively very infrequently. 

 

Okay, to take your example. If changes to a race care were to be implemented, the professional driver will be able to understand and predict the effects of these changes far more accurately than the guy who drives it about every now and then.

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zIP r i n c eIz

MeatShield:

everyone knows prince is the best

I like love the ideas, especially the elephant health and the warthog nerf. I think all the proposed ideas will encourage more diverse strats. We might even see a forge or anders get mainline infantry now :).

 My only critique is that there are no changes to Covenant? is this because you think they are balanced or because less people complain about them since they are used significantly less then human? Will there be any covenant balances. The only other change I might recommend is to make cyclop's more useful.

All of these changes sound great.  A couple more additions:

1.  Do not let a spartan upgrade a Grizzly.  They are too dominant.

2.  Let multiple base turretts build at the same time

3. If a base is unlocked, disperse units at a quicker rate

4. Add Scarab defense against Cutter's mac blast. It should weaken is significantly, but the scarab is useless against Cutter.

5. Add gauss cannon upgrade (or another cannon) to Ghost

6. Let Covenant build scout unit from base, not factory

7. Add better covenant counter to Grizzlies

8. Allow Vampires to stasis drain buildings and turretts

9.  Allow upgraded PoR cannons to have increased damage on the Arbiter

But... all those only make the Covenant Stronger. They make Covs OP...

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Praise the Lord

will any figures be released? for example - turrets health and attack strength +10%

with these changes, the game will be much more balanced and a better game to play with more variety in strategies, which is what this game needs.

SNIPER CHAMP117:

will any figures be released? for example - turrets health and attack strength +10%

with these changes, the game will be much more balanced and a better game to play with more variety in strategies, which is what this game needs.

 

I'm sure they will, they did last time and it's always a great thing to know the specifics of the changes.

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zIP r i n c eIz

MeatShield:

everyone knows prince is the best