That's great for a regular mode, but there are a lot of people out there who want those big fight scenes and those massive walls. That's why I proposed it as an optional mode, you don't have to like it, just tell me if there's something wrong with it.

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yeah, i would love to reinact helms deep halo style. but no elves, Pure blood marine all the way. maybe the elves could be the odsts.

wait "slaps self" all the elves die, sorry, odsts arent the elves, theyre the reinforcements that show up with what ever would replace gandalf

yes i am a lord of the rings fanatic

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Commando = your dead, specialist = boom
I = both

BBJynne:

think of how pathetic it would be if the walls magically defied reason and give the soldiers on it a huge bonus to defeat the enemy

Defenfer "lol, i have a huge wall, i dare you to attack with your awesome army you built instead of this"

Attacker "charge!!"

*the attacking army outnumbers the defenders and has more upgrades but for some reason instead of shooting their weapons the sondiers try to scale the wall with ropes and ladders and mobile grav lifts*

*the defenders on the wall are unscathed by the artillery bombardments, mortors, rockets and airstikes hitting them constantly and cut the attacking soldiers down in swaths* 

*the defending artillery and AA is unharmed by the blasts that should have destroyed them long ago and utterly destroy the attacking artillery and planes* 

Attacker "you n00b stop H4xor *** ***" //quits game and breaks disc// 

 

see you dumb that is? 

That' pretty over exaggerated, but kind of right. The attacker will have to attack multiple areas of the map at once to break the defense, and the artillery could just focus on the enemey artillery, take that down, and then focus on the wall. Yet again, it's an optional mode, play with it if you want.

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the covedant wouldnt charge the wall and if you relized artilery has ALOT of recoil and how do you intend to get the ammo all the way up to the guns.

A large thick wall may work if were fighting covedant infrantry and by covedant infantry i mean grunts and elites.

now if your stacking ammo on top of the wall as a solution to the problem i just stated a monkey with a hand grenade could destroy the wall then, it could be even worse if you keep it at the base of the wall considering you'll collapse a whole area like that.

in modern war(and in the future) if the enemy decides to do that then they just casualy move your cruiser over the planet and bombard the hell out of the fortress until they want to run out and get cut down artilery fire.

also i highly doubt the covedant forces would be so stupid to actualy try and climb the wall they would plant a bomb at the bottom and defend it till it blew open a breach.

Im not bashing you im just stateing some logic i mean think about it we dont use trenches becuase of aircraft and artilery, we dont use castles becuase there not cost effective or effective anymore. and we dont build high walls becuase of the high costs of building them, the time it takes to build them, the massive target it creates and of course becuase you can just fly over it and bomb the hell out of everythign on the other side (via space or atmosphere)

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dragoon9105:

the covedant wouldnt charge the wall and if you relized artilery has ALOT of recoil and how do you intend to get the ammo all the way up to the guns.

A large thick wall may work if were fighting covedant infrantry and by covedant infantry i mean grunts and elites.

now if your stacking ammo on top of the wall as a solution to the problem i just stated a monkey with a hand grenade could destroy the wall then, it could be even worse if you keep it at the base of the wall considering you'll collapse a whole area like that.

in modern war(and in the future) if the enemy decides to do that then they just casualy move your cruiser over the planet and bombard the hell out of the fortress until they want to run out and get cut down artilery fire.

also i highly doubt the covedant forces would be so stupid to actualy try and climb the wall they would plant a bomb at the bottom and defend it till it blew open a breach.

Im not bashing you im just stateing some logic i mean think about it we dont use trenches becuase of aircraft and artilery, we dont use castles becuase there not cost effective or effective anymore. and we dont build high walls becuase of the high costs of building them, the time it takes to build them, the massive target it creates and of course becuase you can just fly over it and bomb the hell out of everythign on the other side (via space or atmosphere)

Logic vs. Fun bunker, away!

Nah, to lazy.

You don't need to think about the ammo. That's putting too much thought into it. Just take out orbital bombardments, that killls way too much of the fun. 

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the walls still aren't right

i suppose a special optional mode would be alright but i hope ES doesn't waste any time on it

if it did go in it would be okay though 

I prefer the way C&C did there methods (IM NOT TALKING ABOUT C&C3 WITCH DIDNT LET YOU BUILD WALLS)

they usualy had a basic wall you just clicked and draged. Certain units could fire over it(rockets/artilery/aa) and others needed to fire and kill it before there rounds reached the enemy (Tanks) and there were units that couldnt even damage the walls at all (infantry) 

the defensive buildings were build seperately giveing an option to not build walls and still have aa bunkers and such.

C&C3 for the 360(not sure on the pc version) lacked the ability to build walls (reasons unkown most likely to weaken turtling) but defensive structures worked at 3x the effeceincy when they didnt have something blocking there line of fire/sight.

trust me ive only scratched the surface here if you look you can probably find plenty of good and bad examples of walls high and low

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SPC COMMANDO:

marines can shoot back, they have guns too, not to mention better guns. have you ever heard of the rocket launcher? the missle pod? or do you think they still use slingshots and bows and arrows. Maybe a crossbow with a grenad?

If you have something better tell us, dont just say our ideas suck. the wall does not inhibit the troops ability to leave the base, it actually makes it so the scarab cant just walk up to the wall and fire over it.

I just thought of a million different ways a wall would be useless. Would you like to hear one of my classic stories?

 

The Wall Of Harvest

By: Spartan-056

Location: Gamma Base, Harvest 

 

After months of fighting the Covenant, the UNSC decided to build a giant wall.

"Sir! The wall is complete!" Screamed Private George.

"Good, now we can-"

"Hang on sir! Sensors detect a scarab approaching the wall!!!!"

The Private looked up at the giant wall and heard the Scarab approaching.

"I hear it Commander!" Whispered the wide-eyed Private.

There was a charging sound and the scarab opened fire. The plasma blew straight through the wall. Scorching hit Plasma washed over the warthog facility and the Spirit  Of Fire's supply pads.

"Marines! Scarab! Arm the rocket launchers!"

Ten platoons of marines marched out of the barracks, all armed with rocket launchers. The rockets all fired and made contact with the Scarab. Unfortunately, some of the rockets were a bit off, and impacted the newly build wall. The northern section crumbled and wraiths came piling in. A couple of shots and the base was reduced to ruins. 

"That wall" Screamed Private George "It stood in our way!"

The Southern wall fell, killing nearly all of the men left. Private George dropped his assault rifle at the quake of the scarab beam heading toward him.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                   Location: UNSC Phoenix Class Spirit Of Fire
 

"Capitan, we lost the Private. Something is going on at Gamma base."

Did the wall block the shots of the men? Thought Capitan Lock, did the men get trapped behind the wall?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Casualties were 100% 

 

The End

 

;D 

 
 

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lol 056

i tried that "story" tact already, didn't work 

The reference to scarabs reminded me of a scene in Halo 2 which, shows why walls aren't useful against the covenant. The first instance of a scarab is when it steps through the wall, and the wall succumbs to the weight and momentum of the scarabs feet. At the end of the scene of course, the scarab gets caught behind another wall. That I put forth to the jury as the pilots fault for not blasting the large impediment before it got stuck.

I am also reminded of how scarabs are deployed in Halo 3. They are dropped upon the enemy from the atmosphere. Suppose you walled in your base, where do you think the covenant will drop the scarab? 

The answer is obvious, they will try and score two point in your base, which will probably crush building, and crumble the walls, which have now failed at blocking the enemy from getting in, as your troops squeeze through the tiny gate to escape one death for another. Mean while the Covenant is laughing their hides off from orbit. (Thats what I would be doing anyway). On a side note, if your AA did shred the scarab before it impacted, you would have just doomed your base to the equivalent of an artillery barrage, because you can't hit the reactor from it's belly. 

By the way. you all should know that there is better way to impede enemies from gaining access to certain areas, they are called land mines. Yes they can be cleared, yes they can be shot over it, and so can you, but you probably don't know about the mines yet, and it is slow process to clear mines without the proper tools,giving the enemy a better opportunity to shoot you first. You could choose to go around the mines, but keep in mind, the enemy has set the mines to direct you in the direction they want you to go, not the safe, advantageous direction you picked out. Oh and keep an eye out for their air patrols herding you back into the minefield.

Therefore I submit to you, that mines are a better alternative to walls, they offer you dominance over an area, while giving you even more bang for the buck (literally, mines are inexpensive to produce), and it would be really fun to watch a scarab fall in minefield. 

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Nothing like a good helping of wholesale destruction in the morning is there?
-Formerly Captain Lantern

SPC COMMANDO:

Rasq'uire'laskar:

James T.:

    Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I was unaware that the UNSC already had artillery.

Anyway, I forgot to mention this. If you are proposing solutions, then ignore that post. I apologize for any inconveniences. \

So Cobalt, do you like it now? 

Why WOULDN"T the UNSC have artillery? They're a full fledged army!

OK, admittedly, smaller one story walls would have a place in Halo Wars. Modern military bases have them for a reason: To protect from snipers and spying civilians.

However, the large, three story, garrison troops on top, Helms Deep walls do not fit. The resources and time invested would be ENORMOUS, too large for a short-term base that's going to be glassed anyways.

In any case, such walls were made obsolete with the advent of artillery and aircraft, AA notwithstanding. Do you realize just how inefficient AA is at shooting down bombers and strike craft? 

that looks more like he's throwing MODERN facts at us. but halo is not modern, it is 500 some odd years in the future. and according to the description of the map high ground that base was built about before halo but after 2100

Halo is MUCH more modern than, say, the siege of Jericho. In case you haven't noticed, they're using weapons and vehicles VERY SIMILAR to today's army, with the exception of navies flying around in orbit. Which makes walls even more useless. So get the idea of "Ultra-modern" out of your head. The fact is, the future will resemble today MUCH more than it resembles yesterday.

 

James T.:

Rasq- Big walls, massive fights, big explosions. you don't want it, don't play siege mode.

I'd rather have them spend time and money working on something else. 

 

James T.:

I'm tired of listening to your complaints

My complaints would be full-fledged arguments. But with two AP tests, the SAT, and catching up with lost time in class, my recreation time is too short to post long, detailed arguments and ideas. 

James T.:

things are really going south between us, so unless you have something productive to say to me, don't talk to me.

I'm beginning to wonder why I even bother talking to you. Whenever I try to point something out, you disregard it as flaming or "But it's fun this way." You don't care about Halo Canon. You just seem to care about the endorphin output of your pituitary gland. You can spend an entire argument battling between 'fun' and logic, and then when it seems like we've reached a deal, you suddenly flip back to the 'screw logic' camp.

I will be posting more arguments and more IDEAS, as soon as I get more time. Unfortunately, I don't have that at the moment.

James T.:

Unless, of course, you are willing to change your ways, cause i have.

Judging from the "Fun vs Logic" thread, you haven't changed a bit. 

James T.:

These ideas are all logical and coherent.

I Posted just WHY this is far from logic. You disregarded it. I'll make my original points, and even more.

• Lets assume that your base takes up 150x150 feet. That's REALLY small. Now let's add a 30 foot high (Three stories) by 5 foot thick wall around it. That's a wall with a base of 160x160 minus 150x150 feet, or 3100 square feet (3/5 of a mile) Now, let's multiply that by 30 feet. We end up with 93000 cubic feet of concrete needed, a very huge amount that would take up space in shipments that could be used for guns and ammo. Not to mention the hours of expertise needed. It doesn't matter if the concrete dries in minutes, you still have to build the mold for it to dry in.
  
• Artillery: Yeah, sure, you can mount artillery on the wall. But you could mount artillery behind a smaller wall too. In any case, it's usually who has the most or the longest ranged artillery who wins. Given that the wraith is described as glassing an area 30 feet in diameter, I'd say that ordinary wraiths can bring down that wall pretty easily.
• In modern warfare, walls are usually established on long-term bases, and these are limited to counter small arms fire/snipers/light vehicles. A huge wall, like the one you described, is too much of an investment, when it would only be good against light vehicles and infantry. It would be vulnerable to bombers/artillery/orbital strikes/MBTs. Halo is closer to modern warfare than it is to the medieval ages, and such walls went out with the invention of the cannon.

You want to know what my suggestion is? Screw the faction built 3-story wall. Use custom maps instead, situating a base inside a crater or a natural depression with a ridge around it. In my opinion, natural terrain would offer more varied strategies and defenses than an improbably huge wall. In fact, by setting your base behind some sort of levee or farming canal, you could also have a moat. XD

 

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Rasq, welcome to my world where people constantly "counter" with no basis against well thought out arguments lol

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be able to buile turrets on a wall conecter and soup up the turret

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"I Farted on a grunt and it exploded Mr. MC"
"Dont worry little boy. Your ass was handy today"

    Alright Rasq,

    i jammed a finger so I'm not gonna type a lot.

As I said before, we don't agree on anything but that we always disagree. I have changed, but you can't expect that change to show immediately. I will except logic, but if it crushes my idea, then of course I won't. 

the one thing that stands out in my mind from your latest reply was the "but it's fun this way" part. I find that the best part of many RTSs are those that don't follow any specific logic. Just hold off on saying that I haven't changed and wait until more things are brought up. Of course, the "deal" that your reffering to is still their, but when it comes to defending my ideas, I'm gonna pick the "fun" side. 

I'm not on the "screw logic" side. Let's pretend that this argument never happened. We'll wait for your other ideas to be posted, and then will determine who's changed and who hasn't. 

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    I just thought about my original post on this thread. I said that the three story wall was rather illogical, and I don't know why I din't listen to my past self. So how 'bout this. Same idea as before, but its only one story. Seems a lot more logical, and fun.

Partial proof that I have changed Rasq 

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