I know, I know. There are like...three threads about the Flood already. Yes, I know. However, those threads, from what I've read, really don't talk much about how to successfully implement the Flood as a faction, they merely suggest why they should or should not be in the game, so here's my take on it all.

The Flood should most definately NOT be in singleplayer. I just can't see that fitting with the timeline. I seriously doubt the Covenant knew about the Flood prior to finding Installation 04. Cortana describes them as "scared" when they find the Flood, and says something along the lines of "they should have known, there should have been signs." To me, this says that the Flood caught the Covenant off-guard. Also, in the Halo Graphic Novel, when the Grunt calls for help on the speaker, he doesn't say "ZOMG ITS THE FLOOD!", he says "ZOMG THEY HAVE HUMAN WEAPONS, BUT THEY AREN"T HUMAN!" The Grunt is confused by these strange creatures with human weapons. And then, later, when Rtas encounters the infected animals, he seems surprised by them. He catches on quick, but that's just because he's an upper-ranking Elite officer, and they don't get to that rank without knowing their stuff.

Thus, if I am writing about implementing the Flood as a playable faction in the game, and I am not talking about singleplayer, I must be talking about multiplayer, right? Yes, I am.

The Flood would be an interesting faction indeed. Whereas UNSC and Covenant forces might start with some sort of tech yard or other central building, the Flood would start with a Photo-Gravemind (Brain Form). This Photo-Gravemind would tain the ground around it with Flood spore (an effect similar to the Creep in StarCraft that the Zerg live on). On this Flood spore, pods would grow, incubate, and then hatch into trios of Infection Forms without the player doing anything.

Infection Forms will be able to infect any infantry (dead or alive, moving or not moving), slow vehicles (like tanks), and fast vehicles that aren't moving. Infected infantry, depending on race, would either become a Combat Form or Carrier Form. At any time, a Combat Form may be turned into a Carrier Form. Vehicles, with the exception of Ghosts driven by Grunts, would remain virtually unchanged, except that they would be operated by Combat Forms instead of their original operators. Because Grunts are not large enough to sustain Combat Forms and thus become Carrier Forms, Ghosts driven by Grunts would become inactive, and could possibly be used by Combat Forms.

Flood spore would only produce so many Infection Forms per minute. It would be enough to get things going, but not enough in the later game. Thus, Carrier Forms would be vital to keep the cycle going.

Now, as the game progresses, the player will want to advance the Photo-Gravemind into a Gravemind, and then into a Super Gravemind. This is done in two ways. The first is automatic. The central intelligence, whatever it is, will pull Calcium from the ground at a very slow rate, and, if left to its own devices for long enough, evolve on its own. To speed up the process, adding Flood forms to a Gravemind would allow it to grow at a proportional rate.

Photo-Graveminds are imobile. Graveminds are slightly mobile, can produce Stalker Forms (the base for Pure Forms) once each minute, and have a special ability called Dominate Will. Super Graveminds have tentacles which can be used for self defense (making it harder for lower techtree units to kill the central intelligence), are slightly more mobile than Graveminds, produce Stalker Forms quicker, and recharge Dominate Will faster. And, of course, as the central intelligence grows, the radius of the Flood spore around it also grows, meaning the output of Infection Forms grows.

By merging a group of five Carrier Forms and a Pure Form, a Juggernaut Form can be made. Stalker Juggernauts are fast, Tank Juggernauts (these will take the form of the Juggernaut cut from Halo 2) are strong, and Turret Juggernauts have ranged attacks. Juggernauts would be the Flood's most powerful weapon.

Now, the process for achieving a Gravemind should take a little longer than it would take to get aerial units. The reason being that Pure Forms and Juggernauts are the only effective counter to aerial units.

Dominate Will is the only special (kinda like MAC bombardment) for the Flood. When used on nonFlood enemies, it causes them to freeze in place (air units sink to the ground before freezing). It is an area affect attack, and lasts for a minute. Units under its effect are succeptable to infection. This is one of the only ways Flood can infect aerial units. When used on Flood enemies, it is still an area affect attack, but instead of freezing the enemy Flood, it merely converts them into friendly units.

Now, a lot of you will argue that the Flood become too powerful in the later game. But, please do not forget that they are also very weak in the early game, and more importantly, the Flood's pace is set by the other players. A wise player doesn't rush the Flood, but rather focuses on defense. When raiding the Flood, a wise player uses mechanized units that can fire and move at the same time, and makes sure to watch vigilantly, lest the vehicle stop for the brief second it would take to infect. Because players have to carefully watch their vehicles when raiding a Flood base, the player should make raids short. Because the resource gathering units are likely infantry-type units, they are succeptable to Flood infection, which thus makes the Flood a great economy killer in the early game.

And in the late game, the Flood will have its weaknesses. Turret Forms and Juggernauts, while useful, won't be an even match for a coordinated air strike. The Scarab would wreak havok on the Flood. Its height causes it to act like an air unit, and its power allows it to decimate enemy forces. Even Dominate Will will not truly stop a Scarab, since it won't wilt just because the operators inside are incapacitated. Juggernauts will most likely be required to take out a leg before a Scarab can be infected. It would be tough, but woe to any foe facing an infected Scarab.

That is really the strong point of the Flood. Anything you can throw at the Flood, they can take and throw back. Thus, the enemy players set the pace.

Strong Against Flood: Hunters, Warthogs, Spectres, Air Units, Scarabs
Weak Against Flood: Infantry, Slow Ground Vehicles

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wow dude, you thought of everything... it looks pretty airtight to me... nice ideas

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its not vengeance... its punishment.

[Image removed, Please limit your signature to one image no larger than 450w x125h pixels. -paragon]

You... you turned around my opinion of the flood for this game, why, because you actually thought it out and, wow. Well anyway adding on you're idea, i noticed that you didn't mention any forms of ways humans can beat the flood so this is were i come in...

What happens it that human forces have to fight through the flood forces and growths and when they reach the Gravemind, begin to shoot is with whatever it has left while the mac cannon overhead lines itself up (would need too be at later tech tree stages). BUT! You won't just win then but after that the flood will become pushovers essentially as they will no longer have have the Gravemind leading them... and like in the way you could probably build a new base after the first one is destroyed as covenant or humans you could try (if playing as flood) to make a new Photo-Gravemind and start over.

The scarabs could possibly be infected by infections climbing up its legs en-mass but as there only infections, they could be defeated by the well trained crew of the scarab.

So this is what i think, but what i think as that what you think is pretty snasy when it concerns the flood.

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Roza:


Finishing The Fight again and again and again...

yeah u pretty much thought it out and i agree with u rot

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there is also the high ground beats low ground staregy.the flood will be constaly losing resources. until hosts can be found, the flood loses resources. the flood will be rushed the whole game.this would make it difficult to matain flood resoucres but that ties out wit there superiority.

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Floody floody flood flooders flooding floodzers flooding flood flood floody flood flooders flooder floods floodin flood floodets floodoring floody flood flooders UBER SAUSAGE -zaki90

Yes, but unless they are rushed by certain vehicles, rushes will only increase their resources.

An Infection Form can outrun a Marine, meaning that if a player commits a Marine, that Marine won't get a chance to run unless no enemies are left living.

Warthogs will be one of the biggest problems for the Flood, because it is fast, meaning it can't be easily infected, and it can fire in all directions while driving. However, the UNSC player has to keep his eyes on the Warthog in order to keep it moving, meaning he isn't looking at much else. In a 1v1, a Warthog rush (which would come later in the game, since the build order to get a Warthog fast would still take time) would be effective, but leave the main base rather open.

Also, for infecting, vehicles, I think that the process will be that enough Flood have to infect the vehicle before it becomes a Flood unit.

So, for a Scorpion, it would be two (driver and gunner). For the Warthog, it would be three (driver, passenger, and gunner). For the Scarab, it would be one hundred (climbing up the legs, as suggested), because when they get to the top, nine tenths would likely die (and so I am guessing there are something like ten crew members). When a vehicle gets infected once, it loses the least important crew member. So the first time an Infection Form successfully hits a Warthog, the passenger stops shooting. On a Scorpion, its the gunner. The second time on a Warthog, its the gunner. On a Scorpion, its the driver and the vehicle is now Flood. The third time on a Warthog, its the driver and the vehicle is now Flood. With a Scarab, nothing changes until all hundred Infection Forms have boarded. With air vehicles, it would only take one, but they would have to be on the ground to infect.

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ya but if you noticed in the demo there was walls and gates and turrets on the walls so that would defend the human base well enough and the high ground lo ground thing if you rush the flood in the begging when you are on the hight ground you would almost certainly win because it would take time for the infection forms to  climb the cliff or watever it is plus nobody has mentioned the behemoth the human type scarab

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the only real heroes in this world are the one who choose to fight despite being out numbered and out matched

I have Question about how to use them... if you're flood bass isn't the only base you want to have, I think it should be possible to infect other areas with say a "Gravemind branch" that could start to make a new area of flood infection as well as it would give the flood player some room for tactics rather that simply send flood everywhere infect everything.

And another thing if you defeat a player then you should get the chance to infect there buildings and stuff. You see given the chance you infect a base and they had a warthog of scorpion in there depot on standby, infect the building you could use any spar combat forms to use that warthog, and possibly if you have a "Gravemind Branch" that i mentioned earlier so now your flood minions could be given the capacity too operate the factories by the intelligent "Gravemind Branch", maybe create new warthogs and tanks and stuff.

I don't know  if I thought all this through enough but, I'm really just putting ideas on the drawing board.

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Roza:


Finishing The Fight again and again and again...

sgtzach:

ya but if you noticed in the demo there was walls and gates and turrets on the walls so that would defend the human base well enough and the high ground lo ground thing if you rush the flood in the begging when you are on the hight ground you would almost certainly win because it would take time for the infection forms to  climb the cliff or watever it is plus nobody has mentioned the behemoth the human type scarab

I don't know how many RTSs you've played, but in a standard RTS, you don't start with a premade base in multiplayer. Thus, you don't start with walls with turrets on them. Those are built much later on in the game. And I don't know what you're talking about with high ground, because the Flood definately have an advantage in that Combat Forms and Juggernauts can leap up cliff faces and Infection Forms and Stalker Forms can climb up cliff faces. And the Behemoth-class Troop Transport, also known as the Elephant, would be an almost completely useless weapon against the Flood. Its very slow, doesn't have very good fields of fire, is easily flanked, and would be generally easy to infect. It is nothinglike a Scarab.

Roza:

I have Question about how to use them... if you're flood bass isn't the only base you want to have, I think it should be possible to infect other areas with say a "Gravemind branch" that could start to make a new area of flood infection as well as it would give the flood player some room for tactics rather that simply send flood everywhere infect everything.

And another thing if you defeat a player then you should get the chance to infect there buildings and stuff. You see given the chance you infect a base and they had a warthog of scorpion in there depot on standby, infect the building you could use any spar combat forms to use that warthog, and possibly if you have a "Gravemind Branch" that i mentioned earlier so now your flood minions could be given the capacity too operate the factories by the intelligent "Gravemind Branch", maybe create new warthogs and tanks and stuff.

I don't know  if I thought all this through enough but, I'm really just putting ideas on the drawing board.

While I can see some of that as working, it might mess with balancing. More realistically, perhaps rather than destroying bases, Flood damage them to a certain point, and then infect them. The ground around the infected buildings becomes tainted with Flood spore and the buildings spawn Infection Forms, time depending on the size of the building (a bunker might put out an Infection Form every ten seconds while a barracks might put out an Infection Form every three seconds).

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Sadly, Most suggestions for this game are complete garbage, and Ensemble probably doesent even bother checking or taking the game suggestions seriously.

But still, well thought out and I think that this would Make Halo Wars a lot more replayable.

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I know you are expecting some witty remark, something funny that is usually found in some signature. Well stop looking because you won't find one here.

I personally believe that paragon or one of the other administrators checks this thread merely for the purpose of moderating it, and in doing so likely reads at least some of the ideas.

However, even if this is not so, I would not privately contact ES with my ideas. To assume that the ideas of a seventeen-year-old amateur game designer is somehow revolutionary to a team of professional game designers who were responsible for the games of my childhood would be, at the very least, conceited.

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Rotaretilbo:

Yes, but unless they are rushed by certain vehicles, rushes will only increase their resources.

An Infection Form can outrun a Marine, meaning that if a player commits a Marine, that Marine won't get a chance to run unless no enemies are left living.

Warthogs will be one of the biggest problems for the Flood, because it is fast, meaning it can't be easily infected, and it can fire in all directions while driving. However, the UNSC player has to keep his eyes on the Warthog in order to keep it moving, meaning he isn't looking at much else. In a 1v1, a Warthog rush (which would come later in the game, since the build order to get a Warthog fast would still take time) would be effective, but leave the main base rather open.

Also, for infecting, vehicles, I think that the process will be that enough Flood have to infect the vehicle before it becomes a Flood unit.

So, for a Scorpion, it would be two (driver and gunner). For the Warthog, it would be three (driver, passenger, and gunner). For the Scarab, it would be one hundred (climbing up the legs, as suggested), because when they get to the top, nine tenths would likely die (and so I am guessing there are something like ten crew members). When a vehicle gets infected once, it loses the least important crew member. So the first time an Infection Form successfully hits a Warthog, the passenger stops shooting. On a Scorpion, its the gunner. The second time on a Warthog, its the gunner. On a Scorpion, its the driver and the vehicle is now Flood. The third time on a Warthog, its the driver and the vehicle is now Flood. With a Scarab, nothing changes until all hundred Infection Forms have boarded. With air vehicles, it would only take one, but they would have to be on the ground to infect.

flood will be rushed to find resoucres so they can countinue to live to infect. they should always be losing resoucres until a host is found, then after that host is flood it will continue to drop, this way the flood will be forced to find more hosts or they die. thats how high ground works. the team on the high edge can kill the enemy with out taking damage. the enemy cannot attack back because they are to high.this causes them to leave. the flood (kinda like the enemy) will be forced to find other hosts or they lose.now look at the scale ------------flood  < human = covie------- 

but here is the worse part. ok you think the flood are gone and you get off the high ground(with a pelican or something) then a random infection that has been hiding jumps and infects someone.now it spreads spores. the flood just came back wit a trick futher balancing the scale

----------------------flood=human=covie-------------------------
 

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Floody floody flood flooders flooding floodzers flooding flood flood floody flood flooders flooder floods floodin flood floodets floodoring floody flood flooders UBER SAUSAGE -zaki90

Rot, at first i didn't want the Flood in HW, but you changed my mind.

I have an idea though.

How about, when the Flood infect a building, it produces infected versions of the units it infects.

For Example, if you infect a barracks, you can get Combat Form from it.

If you infect a vehicle depot, you can get Flood Driven Warthogs and Scorpions.

Finally, if you infect a  turret, you will control it, and it will turn on UNSC, or Covenant.

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"Shoot me again, I ain't dead yet."

The Gravemind as your main building makes flood vs flood possible but theres usualy only 1 gravemind so wouldnt an infected cruiser be possible then its final tech form would be a gravemind.

Also infecting a base would me once you secure an enemy base you would mutate your made carrier forms into a bigger fatter carrier form that could bond itself to an enemy building and start producing flood spore and growth around it.

heres an example.

Flood vs U.N.S.C

Lets say the flood captured a human base. The flood player would mutate his carrier forms into Spore carrier forms.

Flood player makes the spore carriers go into the human barracks burse and infect all the personel and begin flood spore growth.

Now the infected barracks will start to spread flood spore and it will latch onto other buildings.

The entire unsc base becomes infected the buildings will have flood growths coming off of them like the ones you see in high charity in halo 2.

The flood players main base is hit by a mac cannon by the unsc player and the gravemind dies.

The flood infected command center will become your new base of operations and the cycle begins again.

Ps:If the Infected Cruiser idea works then you could deploy the materials inside it considering the flood are very intelligent and a crashed cruiser means a few starting combat forms that could mutate into base structures maybe.

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personnaly, i like my idea better on the Buildings.

It will be cool to infect a UNSC barracks, and then see Combat Forms come out of it and attack the efenders nearby, or infecting a turret, and seeing it attack its former masters.

Plus, lets say you can capture his Command Center, and you can get a few special abilites from it.

1. He cant use MAC cannon.

2.After sending enough combat forms inside, you can control MAC.(Combats are to create a Photo-gravemind.)

3.You can build infection forms from it.

4.You can build infected builders(lets just say that they exist), and build infected buildings.

5.It will expand the Flood "spore".

Finally, 6.It will have 2 ranged forms on the roof, as turrrets.

As you can see, the Command Center is a practically game-ending ability, however, it is in enemy base, and is vulnerable, it takes 50+ Infection Forms to infect crews, and the Mac strike will take 20+ Combat Forms to use.(for purposes of Infection, Carrier Forms count as 6 Infection Forms.)

 

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"Shoot me again, I ain't dead yet."