The Warthog Thread

Last post 07-19-2009, 4:27 AM by Matt K. 400 replies.
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  •  06-05-2009, 3:16 PM 614663 in reply to 614661

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    jomazq:
    I FJ I:
    Foxy:
    green elite:
    Cookie Krisp:

    uhh.......gunner hogs are still too good. They make all regular infantry useless.

     

    Gauss nerf is the biggest issue right now but the game would be a lot better if they nerfed gauss AND made infantry stronger. Either that, or make gunner hogs more difficult to get.

     

    It would be nice to build marines for once instead of opening every single game with 5 hogs or a tank build.

    Creepy Krisp get off the forums you crazy 7 year old

    7 year old who knows what he's talking about.

    There i no problem with gunner hogs

    FJ: Why is marines listed as a soft counter to hogs, but equivalent tech levels and superior numbers of marines will never win out in game?  I have done nothing but parse the cutter infantry advantage only to find none to be had.  but i digress; as you've explained about ultimate unit cost and tech level advantages being taken into account, I've done so and the listing of marines being a viable counter at any point is now, for me, quite laughable.  going on 80 hours on live just playing cutter trying to get elephants and marines to be worth a hoot. 

    Micro'ing RPG's is essential. 


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  •  06-05-2009, 3:25 PM 614674 in reply to 614663

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    Korther:
    jomazq:
    I FJ I:
    Foxy:
    green elite:
    Cookie Krisp:

    uhh.......gunner hogs are still too good. They make all regular infantry useless.

     

    Gauss nerf is the biggest issue right now but the game would be a lot better if they nerfed gauss AND made infantry stronger. Either that, or make gunner hogs more difficult to get.

     

    It would be nice to build marines for once instead of opening every single game with 5 hogs or a tank build.

    Creepy Krisp get off the forums you crazy 7 year old

    7 year old who knows what he's talking about.

    There i no problem with gunner hogs

    FJ: Why is marines listed as a soft counter to hogs, but equivalent tech levels and superior numbers of marines will never win out in game?  I have done nothing but parse the cutter infantry advantage only to find none to be had.  but i digress; as you've explained about ultimate unit cost and tech level advantages being taken into account, I've done so and the listing of marines being a viable counter at any point is now, for me, quite laughable.  going on 80 hours on live just playing cutter trying to get elephants and marines to be worth a hoot. 

    Micro'ing RPG's is essential. 

    I'm really glad you brought this up. 

    marines are listed as soft counters

    marines when micro'd lose out on dealing damage. 

    hog's don't.  

    y ability misses much as the hogs drive to and fro

    as the hogs by far out micro the marines(thereby winning any given encounter),

    why are they listed as soft counters, when they are in practice fodder.

    Graeme Devine said (paraphrased)"I will tend to choose cutter and I will be in your base in 30-40 seconds, and I will wipe you off the map" 

    B.S.

    What tweek drove that strat out of existence. 

  •  06-05-2009, 3:31 PM 614684 in reply to 614674

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    They suck as counters.

    But gunner hogs arnt a problem. If you want to keep 5 hogs out of your base, make a turret. Gunner hogs are no threat, no matter how many the enemy has.


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  •  06-05-2009, 3:51 PM 614706 in reply to 614684

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    I FJ I:

    They suck as counters.

    But gunner hogs arnt a problem. If you want to keep 5 hogs out of your base, make a turret. Gunner hogs are no threat, no matter how many the enemy has.

    The turrets better be built or close to it. I (a not so good player) have taken turrets out, on their way up, with 5-6-7 gunner hogs.  and thusly continued training hogs finishing the game at around 7 minutes with 12 grenadier hogs, darting this way and that to take out anything built or produced. 
  •  06-05-2009, 3:57 PM 614712 in reply to 614706

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    jomazq:
    I FJ I:

    They suck as counters.

    But gunner hogs arnt a problem. If you want to keep 5 hogs out of your base, make a turret. Gunner hogs are no threat, no matter how many the enemy has.

    The turrets better be built or close to it. I (a not so good player) have taken turrets out, on their way up, with 5-6-7 gunner hogs.  and thusly continued training hogs finishing the game at around 7 minutes with 12 grenadier hogs, darting this way and that to take out anything built or produced. 

    You only need two turrets (diagonally) to stop gunner hogs. You can get two turrets up before the enemy has 5-7 hogs easily. 


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  •  06-05-2009, 4:00 PM 614715 in reply to 614712

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    iEchoic:
    jomazq:
    I FJ I:

    They suck as counters.

    But gunner hogs arnt a problem. If you want to keep 5 hogs out of your base, make a turret. Gunner hogs are no threat, no matter how many the enemy has.

    The turrets better be built or close to it. I (a not so good player) have taken turrets out, on their way up, with 5-6-7 gunner hogs.  and thusly continued training hogs finishing the game at around 7 minutes with 12 grenadier hogs, darting this way and that to take out anything built or produced. 

    You only need two turrets (diagonally) to stop gunner hogs. You can get two turrets up before the enemy has 5-7 hogs easily. 

    You can have 2 turrets way before the enemy has even enough gunner hogs for even a small attack.

    Then a tank or couple hunter squads get built, and its game over for them


    1v1 - 48
    2v2 - 50
    3v3 - 47

    Best player evar!!!1!
  •  06-05-2009, 4:02 PM 614718 in reply to 614081

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    Im Allhere:
    Jasper16:
    Im Allhere:

    Jasper16:
    Im Allhere:
    Jasper16:

    Before we do anything with warthogs, would any of the people claiming they are OP please explain the stats of the players below. 

    Their win percentages are just un real, and they don’t seem to be using hogs.   

    Now if the are doing some kind of cheating please explain.  Because from a quick scan their worst player has a record of 108 wins 2 losses. 

    http://www.halowars.com/stats/StatsPlayer.aspx?id=7ABCBC0DBE86276EBEC06F4C5AF2250876297B61FF54A5060401E3BBA5C1E704&mode=

    http://www.halowars.com/stats/StatsPlayer.aspx?id=634C905174E57F46992C4D749F290C742ECBE17E893172F7A408E45FE48FB489&mode=

    http://www.halowars.com/stats/StatsPlayer.aspx?id=8CB8F7A088E0F64D732D220D3AA0BE89468D2776BBD05076DADFA2D1A54E79BC

    I do not know these guys, but they are playing 3v3 arranged teams and just walking through team after team.   They hold the top 7 spots in wins for June in 3v3 arranged teams, and before you say the month is young they have over 100+ games played.  Also if they are cheating I would like to know how.   The links above will get you into some of their records. 

    Also this guy is 57 wins no losses in June in 2v2 arranged and he only seems to be using the brute. 

    http://www.halowars.com/stats/StatsPlayer.aspx?id=23DAF69D877806BB0569A8DA3F7E5402D37CF7D79126E200108FB8F90BA3B25A&mode=

    first guy builds and upgrades arbiter and rage rush

    second guy brute rush with support of other units

    third guy tank rush with a fast tank build.

    most people they play sucks and die, they never fight hog spammers. This has nothing to do with warthogs, they are good player with second profiles. they have good build order and attack time and work well together. did i metion most of the people they play againt suck.

     OK now i can say Warthogs are op

     So the one guy who is 316 wins and 5 loses TS 49 has never played a good hog spammer.  Also his loss this month seems to be a double resign game both teams lost.  So what you are saying is a good build order will out due hogs, hmm but this shouldnt be hogs are OP by the best players is what I have been told how could you get to TS 49 without building one hog.   I think Hogs just got exposed. 

    they double leader rush a guy and don't even let people build things. the 3rd guy tank rush and become the deciding facter. all the games they play lasts about 5 min. What heck are you going to do? leader rush every game in 2 min?

    You are right they don't let people build things, but isnt that the point to kill your oppenent.  Isn't that what the invivceble hog spammers  do is rush before you are ready, so why haven't the hog spammers crushed these guys.  Face it Hogs aren't OP, you guys all wanted evidence it is right there for you to see, you may not like it but it is there and there is nothing you can say to disprove it. 

     

    go look at 1v1 leader boards and find me 1 unsc person not using hogs, go find a few covi players.

    top 3 people build a lot of hogs. H u m a n jp 1 spams hogs in 3v3 and win 85% of the time, if you play unarraged 3v3 you know its hard to be above 60% win because teammates sucks.

    heres a game you lost against bad bog spammers:

    http://www.halowars.com/stats/StatsGame.aspx?Id=17707789-3908-4687-5615-000000000000

    try playing unarraged 3v3 1/3 games is hog spam, you can't do a rush because 3v1 would easily defend rush hogs beat everything

    So this is your best effort to tell me hog spam is OP to find a game that I lost, well lets take a little deeper look at that game.  You say it was hog spam, but i think my team was a bit more hurt by the fact that one of our players was playing his 12th game ever the other team had one guy with 375+ games, 480+ games, and 800+ games.  My other teammate had played 120 games, so the least experinced player on the other team had played almost three times as many games as my partners combined, that had allot more to do with the loss than anything else.  I just look at the experience level of the players playing i had one partner who in a 16 minute game managed to build 5 units (and one of those was the BC he got for free for making his temple).  But if that makes you feel like hogs are OP you can think that, but I see everyone of you dodging the same issue over and over.  How did those guys become so highly ranked with out hog rushing if hog rushing is OP.  Oh and before you go grab the couple games I lost last night and say it was all hogs, I was trying out a new arbiter strat that didn't work and the two we lost because of that were for that reason, see I can admit when I try something that doesnt work instead of just complainning to the developers. 

  •  06-05-2009, 5:20 PM 614766 in reply to 614718

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    Jasper16:

    So this is your best effort to tell me hog spam is OP to find a game that I lost, well lets take a little deeper look at that game.  You say it was hog spam, but i think my team was a bit more hurt by the fact that one of our players was playing his 12th game ever the other team had one guy with 375+ games, 480+ games, and 800+ games.  My other teammate had played 120 games, so the least experinced player on the other team had played almost three times as many games as my partners combined, that had allot more to do with the loss than anything else.  I just look at the experience level of the players playing i had one partner who in a 16 minute game managed to build 5 units (and one of those was the BC he got for free for making his temple).  But if that makes you feel like hogs are OP you can think that, but I see everyone of you dodging the same issue over and over.  How did those guys become so highly ranked with out hog rushing if hog rushing is OP.  Oh and before you go grab the couple games I lost last night and say it was all hogs, I was trying out a new arbiter strat that didn't work and the two we lost because of that were for that reason, see I can admit when I try something that doesnt work instead of just complainning to the developers. 

    JASPER! YAAAAAAY JASPER!

    Read more posts. The issue is not the rush, I don't think anyone is complaining about the rush. People have said this over and over--- OVER AND F*CK OVER!

    read the very first post-  http://www.halowars.com/forums/thread/611210.aspx

    Don't just read part of THE FIRST POST, read all of THE FIRST POST. I don't care if you still disagree, but instead that you understand what the actual issue is.

    Saying this game is balanced is idiocy, I hope that's not what you're saying. Most of it relies on predictability, but no RTS is balanced unless it is played faction/leader vs same faction/leader. The devs are not going to be able to get this 100% right, that's impossible and absolute rubbish, but if there is a way to make the game more balanced without altering the game as a whole, then testing should be done and the idea should be tried.

    -I don't think a nerf to gauss's power against heavy armor does that (significantly alters the game). Since hogs are most effective at gathering resources, scouting the enemy, and killing anti-infantry, their purpose would not dwindle, nor would it alter any other unit's effectiveness except how well heavy armor does against the gauss hog itself. If anything, this means diversity in play and an overall richer experience.

    Think about what you use the gauss hog for... Will its use ultimately disappear if they are less affective against scorpions, wraiths, cobras and hunters (heavy armor includes elephants too)? If you feel this way then perhaps you are not understanding the game.

     

     


    "You've killed John Belushi, Chris Farley, Mitch Hedberg, Richard Pryor, and George Carlin. Congratulations Mr. Cook, you've killed comedy, will you please stop now?"
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  •  06-05-2009, 5:48 PM 614803 in reply to 614766

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    floo9465:
    Jasper16:

    So this is your best effort to tell me hog spam is OP to find a game that I lost, well lets take a little deeper look at that game.  You say it was hog spam, but i think my team was a bit more hurt by the fact that one of our players was playing his 12th game ever the other team had one guy with 375+ games, 480+ games, and 800+ games.  My other teammate had played 120 games, so the least experinced player on the other team had played almost three times as many games as my partners combined, that had allot more to do with the loss than anything else.  I just look at the experience level of the players playing i had one partner who in a 16 minute game managed to build 5 units (and one of those was the BC he got for free for making his temple).  But if that makes you feel like hogs are OP you can think that, but I see everyone of you dodging the same issue over and over.  How did those guys become so highly ranked with out hog rushing if hog rushing is OP.  Oh and before you go grab the couple games I lost last night and say it was all hogs, I was trying out a new arbiter strat that didn't work and the two we lost because of that were for that reason, see I can admit when I try something that doesnt work instead of just complainning to the developers. 

    JASPER! YAAAAAAY JASPER!

    Read more posts. The issue is not the rush, I don't think anyone is complaining about the rush. People have said this over and over--- OVER AND F*CK OVER!

    read the very first post-  http://www.halowars.com/forums/thread/611210.aspx

    Don't just read part of THE FIRST POST, read all of THE FIRST POST. I don't care if you still disagree, but instead that you understand what the actual issue is.

    Saying this game is balanced is idiocy, I hope that's not what you're saying. Most of it relies on predictability, but no RTS is balanced unless it is played faction/leader vs same faction/leader. The devs are not going to be able to get this 100% right, that's impossible and absolute rubbish, but if there is a way to make the game more balanced without altering the game as a whole, then testing should be done and the idea should be tried.

    -I don't think a nerf to gauss's power against heavy armor does that (significantly alters the game). Since hogs are most effective at gathering resources, scouting the enemy, and killing anti-infantry, their purpose would not dwindle, nor would it alter any other unit's effectiveness except how well heavy armor does against the gauss hog itself. If anything, this means diversity in play and an overall richer experience.

    Think about what you use the gauss hog for... Will its use ultimately disappear if they are less affective against scorpions, wraiths, cobras and hunters (heavy armor includes elephants too)? If you feel this way then perhaps you are not understanding the game.

     

     

    I tried to understand your post but it jumps around.  Either way my long post above was to a few people on this board who I have had along standing conversation with over hogs being OP vs not OP.  I believe my post was addressed to everyone who was claimming hogs were OP and needed to be changed (I have been one a of the few saying they don't need any adjustment at all), nothing more.  I wanted the group who have gone on and on about hogs being OP to explain the current leaderboards, how it is being completely domminated by guys who are not Hog rushing.  Yes all RTS games have some minor inbalances that can be exploited, this game has some but is pretty balanced I think what it is is people refuse to adjust their strat to the leader they have.  If you use Forge tactics while using the Profit you will die, but this does not mean the profit sucks you just have to use him the way he was designed, and you can domminate with both. 

    either way the thread doesnt have the ussuall hogs are OP guys in it, probabbly because all of their therioes were proven wrong by the long post and it is impossible to combat with that level of evidence staring them in the face.  All of my posts in this thread are that hogs are not OP nothing more, I don't want the developers making changes to the game because certain players have gone on and on about hogs being OP when the evidence clearly shows that you can completely domminate this game without building one hog, thats all I was saying nothing more. 

    If you feel there is another imbalance in the game their may be, I only researched and presented the case that Hogs are fine as is and need no tweaking/nerfing.   To anyone who still thinks hogs are OP read my first post in this thread, prove it wrong and then we can talk about that. The only change I want for this game is a way to make the leaderboards more reflective of the current players playing and a system implementd that removes players from the board who go inactive for months at a time.   

  •  06-05-2009, 6:44 PM 614848 in reply to 613788

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    decrease the damage gauss does to infantry. this will make the soft couter more effective.
    crusaderking:
    Tomanater is like a supply elevator. nuff said.
  •  06-05-2009, 7:00 PM 614857 in reply to 614848

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    Don't do anything. Vortex is all I need :)
    Tank > Banshee
  •  06-05-2009, 7:20 PM 614872 in reply to 614857

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    After playing all the top Anders in 3v3 unarranged(in the top 100), I would have to say guass warthogs need nerfed. As of now, they are unbeatable by any of the other 5 leaders. I don't want to hear people tell me they are not OP, only pro players understand why/that guass warthogs are OP

    Not to mention her unique unit just ticks me off, only special unit that counters units AND turrets.

    But first nerf the hogs, everyone that is smart will understand that hogs are OP.

    Nuff said.....I hope


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  •  06-05-2009, 8:10 PM 614892 in reply to 614803

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    Jasper16:

    I tried to understand your post but it jumps around.  Either way my long post above was to a few people on this board who I have had along standing conversation with over hogs being OP vs not OP.  I believe my post was addressed to everyone who was claimming hogs were OP and needed to be changed (I have been one a of the few saying they don't need any adjustment at all), nothing more.  I wanted the group who have gone on and on about hogs being OP to explain the current leaderboards, how it is being completely domminated by guys who are not Hog rushing.  Yes all RTS games have some minor inbalances that can be exploited, this game has some but is pretty balanced I think what it is is people refuse to adjust their strat to the leader they have.  If you use Forge tactics while using the Profit you will die, but this does not mean the profit sucks you just have to use him the way he was designed, and you can domminate with both. 

    either way the thread doesnt have the ussuall hogs are OP guys in it, probabbly because all of their therioes were proven wrong by the long post and it is impossible to combat with that level of evidence staring them in the face.  All of my posts in this thread are that hogs are not OP nothing more, I don't want the developers making changes to the game because certain players have gone on and on about hogs being OP when the evidence clearly shows that you can completely domminate this game without building one hog, thats all I was saying nothing more. 

    If you feel there is another imbalance in the game their may be, I only researched and presented the case that Hogs are fine as is and need no tweaking/nerfing.   To anyone who still thinks hogs are OP read my first post in this thread, prove it wrong and then we can talk about that. The only change I want for this game is a way to make the leaderboards more reflective of the current players playing and a system implementd that removes players from the board who go inactive for months at a time.   

    Well I think the main reason people aren't responding to you is because they don't care what you have to say. The devs have already said the hog is too powerful and they are working on a fix.

    Did you even read my post?


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    -R. Gabriel Turner
  •  06-05-2009, 9:13 PM 614934 in reply to 614892

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    i think im pretty *** good with a warthog rush. But its been stopped before by a bunch of gremlins. And also by three scrorpions with spartans on them. It is beateable. So i dont think they are too overpowered. they are absolutely worthless mid to late game. Also a BC with spammed brutes and choppers early like (4 min)can stop the rush. atleast these are the ways I've been stopped. Still new to RTS tho.


    Baron vOn Instinct
  •  06-05-2009, 10:00 PM 614957 in reply to 614934

    Re: The Warthog Thread

    So?  The problem is near exclusively Gauss.  Gunner/Grenadier Hogs are easily swatted by turrets and vehicles.

    The problem is not Gunner/Grenadier Rush, its Gauss Spam.

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