i love all the posts about warthogs and fighting, its funny, its only like the 3 or 4 ppl with 1k posts taking it so seriously that they need to spam till its nerfed lol.

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AveryHappyDrkness

Have you had your dose of f*cked up today?

th3drkness:i love all the posts about warthogs and fighting, its funny, its only like the 3 or 4 ppl with 1k posts taking it so seriously that they need to spam till its nerfed lol.

Warthog Rushing is not OP

Warthog Spamming is.

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Aloysius:
-Less than half a of percent of players have the General rank on Xbox Live.

How is the General rank fair again?

Halo Fanboys. The next most annoying thing next to Jonas Brothers fanboys.

it would be cool if you could flip warthogs with grenades or rockets or something, or kill the gunner or driver before it has to blow up.

TrUe SkiilL TM:ROBOT, please make the GCannon nerf subtle and don't touch Anders or Grenadier. We don't want another Prophet on our hands

(disregard that. the prophet is still a good leader.)

1. decrease hog attack range
2. nerf ram 
3. decrease gunner cost to 150, grenadier to 300 and gauss to 700. increase warthog cost to 200

• it would make anders v brute a better match up and decrease hog survivability.
• hunters should actually counter hogs.  it may force unsc to deversify their army.
• this would give anders less reason to focus on hogs so much and also make them a real choice for other leaders as well.

 

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Gt: Operation FAIL

Didn't feel like reading the other pages, but here is my idea (whether it has been said yet or not):

 In other Halo games, Gauss Cannon Hogs have been primarily reserved for big team battles (Lots of people), and non Gaussed Hogs (with room for someone in shotgun to toss nades :D  ) have been used on smaller maps with fewer people.

Integrating this into Halo Wars, hog spammers can continue to hog spam in 3v3's (where teamates can help counter the hog spam), but in 2v2's and 1v1's, without the Guass, it makes the Hogs less effective and considerably more counterable.

 I guarentee this will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the amount of crying on these forums about OP Hogs.

Nothing is drastically changed, no leaders get debuffed/buffed, everyone stops crying.

Maybe the reason its so strong is because they teched the warthog up and they have a powerful army when u just have a big one.

For those who say that warthog spamming isn't an issue in 3v3, obviously have never been triple teamed by 60 warthogs and a Prophet.  Despite teamates helping, just the fact that you cannot overcome that type of attack due to attrition of resources/units is overpowered.  Those who are spamming the hogs can just keep pumping them out non-stop while your units cannot keep up, and your reactors/supply pads etc. are destoryed preventing you from effectively countering, regardless of what your units are.

The Warthog needs to cost 2 population, just like a Gremlin or Wolverine which are of similar size.  This will prevent the sheer numbers from building up.  Couple that with a slight bump to the tech requirements (build at 1 instead of 0 to even out with Covenant), and maybe a slight nerf to the Gauss damage (maybe -5-10% against vehicles and -20-25% against buildings), and they would be managable and not overpowered.

Yes, scouting and building counters is helpful, but not always effective.

a hit and run raid is effective but its much harder to destroy the hogs if there firing at your base while movind around it ftw

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"Captain wake up something has happeneded" Could this lead to a sequel?


A energy sword is pretty muich a light saber but more halo wise.

Jasper16:You are right they don't let people build things, but isnt that the point to kill your oppenent.  Isn't that what the invivceble hog spammers  do is rush before you are ready, so why haven't  the hog spammers crushed these guys.  Face it Hogs aren't OP, you guys all wanted evidence it is right there for you to see, you may not like it but it is there and there is nothing you can say to disprove it. 

I am sure you understand what I am about to say, but I feel it must be pointed out just to be safe.

You keep saying Warthogs aren't OP and citing that group of 3 as your main proof.  What a large portion of the better players keep saying is that Guass Warthogs are OP, not Warthogs.  Until Tech 3, Warthogs are balanced properly.  It is at that point, they receive a massive increase in their efficiency.  Here is a bulleted list with some of the reasons why:

• They are Tech 3, so they 45% more hp, defense and offense while most of their counters have at most 15%.
• They are highly mobile units and can only be beaten to a point on a map by air or another scout.
• They go from dealing constant damage (Chain Gun), to dealing spike damage (Guass).
• The above 2 points in conjuction allow Guass Canon Warthogs to front load their damage, retreat to avoid damage, and then frontload again thereby creating a disproportionate amount of dmg out to dmg in ratio.

Now I am sure there are more reasons, but I will not go any farther.  My point being, Guass Warthogs are things that need fixing, not Warthogs in general.

The reason that group of 3 does so well is because they never allow Guass Warthogs to be a problem and achieve this by using the Covi leaders as early pressure.  This makes the opposing team play defensively which allows there UNSC player to continue regular production in a sterile environment.  Bassically, they rush the rusher if you follow my meaning.

On a seperate but related note, you must also understand that game dynamics and balance change between 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3.  What works in 1v1, may not work in 3v3, what works in 3v3, may not work in 2v2, etc.  This team also exemplifies such an occurence.  As Im Allhere pointed out, in 1v1, Guass Hogs own the leader boards.  A very big part for this occurence is that it is very hard to field an army that has enough power and resources to counter them.  This will not always carry foreward to the other team sizes.  Case in point is that team of 3.  That team has enough power and resources to counter early Warthogs.  That is a major key to their success.

Anyway, to wrap this up I will reiterrate my main point.  Guass Warthogs are the things that need tweaking, not Warthogs.  The differences are big enough that it should be made clear which we are talking about at any point in time.

r4ngewarlord:it would be cool if you could flip warthogs with grenades or rockets or something, or kill the gunner or driver before it has to blow up.

Thats a cool idea but I dont  know about gameplay

LeAfrika:

• They are Tech 3, so they 45% more hp, defense and offense while most of their counters have at most 15%.
• They are highly mobile units and can only be beaten to a point on a map by air or another scout.
• They go from dealing constant damage (Chain Gun), to dealing spike damage (Guass).
• The above 2 points in conjuction allow Guass Canon Warthogs to front load their damage, retreat to avoid damage, and then frontload again thereby creating a disproportionate amount of dmg out to dmg in ratio.

Actually, gauss woops a$$ against air, mostly because of how early Anders can get gauss (doesn't allow other player to mass enough air) but they can actually keep up with them micro-wise (the banshee at least). Also, don't forget that part of the issue is how soon Anders can get gauss, which means the player will also be fighting against her cryo.

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"You've killed John Belushi, Chris Farley, Mitch Hedberg, Richard Pryor, and George Carlin. Congratulations Mr. Cook, you've killed comedy, will you please stop now?"
-R. Gabriel Turner

I personally feel that Warthogs are only an issue when facing Anders Gauss hogs.  By the time Cutter and Forge can spam Gauss you should already have a solid counter in play.  Even spammed gauss hogs can be turned away if you have the time to build the counters.  She can build them before you can build your counters, however.

As a result, I think it would be more effective since her Econ bonus allows for units to cost less and build faster to simply nix Hogs for her altogether the way that the Brute Cheiftain fields Choppers rather than Ghosts.

Give her an upgradable Mongoose.  That way she can still scout and she can still build everything else just as easily.  The Goose should be extremely fast but lighly armored.  Upgrades include an passenger with a rocket launcher and another that involves stabilizers that would allow it to be more manueverable and have the Marine's rocket fire at an increased rate.    It removes the issue completely and she still maintains all of her other bonuses.  It also forces her to have to field a more dynamic army because she won't be able to Gauss Spam at all.

For the other leaders, decrease the damage that the Gauss does to vehicles a smidge, increase the damage done to infantry (this includes leaders) and leave it alone in regards to how it performs vs. air.  also, decrease the speed of the Warthog just a smidge as well.  This would make the Mongoose the fastest scout in the game.  As a result, the Mongoose could weigh in at 100, the Warthogs at 200.  Even if the Goose were spammed they wouldn't hold up against much damage.  And as for Warthogs, the costs to spam would increase.

IMO a Scout should be a Scout.  It shouldn't be able to hold it's own vs. Heavy Armor unless it can outmanuever them and even then a scout shouldn't be ripping through the shields and armor of a Wraith or Scorpion while they're struggling to track it with thier weapons.  They should be able to hold out against and get some units over to help support.  It should be able to repel Air, but only to a point.

No one has to agree with me, that's just how I see it.

LeAfrika:

• They are Tech 3, so they 45% more hp, defense and offense while most of their counters have at most 15%.
•  ok but all units in same tech should have 45% as tech 4 units would have 60% tech 5 (super units 75%)
  
• They are highly mobile units and can only be beaten to a point on a map by air or another scout.
• They go from dealing constant damage (Chain Gun), to dealing spike damage (Guass).
• all anti vehical damage is spike damage, all this does give the warthog extra shot plus 15%.  that is only thing that makes them different is that vs grenadier.
  
• The above 2 points in conjuction allow Guass Canon Warthogs to front load their damage, retreat to avoid damage, and then frontload again thereby creating a disproportionate amount of dmg out to dmg in ratio.
• The only damage ratio problem is that stream to spike but thats very small and has very little effect on fact that spamming has huge ratio easy to set up and constant warthogs that made about the same speed.  8 sec to a marine 6 secs.  that is op problem.
  
• actually i don't know about hunters range but scorpians, cobras shoot farther and are both frontload damage the only thing that hurts scorpions and corbas is attacking from behind where their turrent has to move which can cause problems so warthogs can't retreat by frontloading against scorpian only if they where doing it from behind but that is bad postion on scorpions part.
  

Now I am sure there are more reasons, but I will not go any farther.  My point being, Guass Warthogs are things that need fixing, not Warthogs in general.

 

On a seperate but related note, you must also understand that game dynamics and balance change between 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3.  What works in 1v1, may not work in 3v3, what works in 3v3, may not work in 2v2, etc.  This team also exemplifies such an occurence.  As Im Allhere pointed out, in 1v1, Guass Hogs own the leader boards.  A very big part for this occurence is that it is very hard to field an army that has enough power and resources to counter them.  This will not always carry foreward to the other team sizes.  Case in point is that team of 3.  That team has enough power and resources to counter early Warthogs.  That is a major key to their success.

Anyway, to wrap this up I will reiterrate my main point.  Guass Warthogs are the things that need tweaking, not Warthogs.  The differences are big enough that it should be made clear which we are talking about at any point in time.

the only difference of 1 vs 1 to 3 vs 3 is all have to do about team work.  a rush would fail if one person does and the defeder has two people.  but if all players played as one then it would be the same tring to stop  a 1 vs 1 but the most difficult thing is to play on a team.  that skill is above all other skill that rts plays off of.

iEchoic:

Please do not balance this patch around newbie complaints, Robot. I know you're a good dev team, and probably will not, it's just my plea.

Gauss hogs need a tweak. Just a behind-the-scenes stat change, I'd personally like to see the building damage and damage against heavy armor reduced significantly, once again allowing scorpions and wraiths to counter gauss hogs. As it is now, regardless who wins the fight, gauss counters scorpions and wraiths because they are faster and do more building damage per resource, forcing scorpions/wraiths/hunters to sit and defend.

Nobody above trueskill 40 has ever had a problem with gunner/grenadier hogs. Please do not hamstring the game as a PR move.

your just another warthog spamming loser...its way overpowered and your argument is ridiculous. Should take more time to build hogs 

I FJ I:

Foxy:

green elite:

Cookie Krisp:

uhh.......gunner hogs are still too good. They make all regular infantry useless.

 

Gauss nerf is the biggest issue right now but the game would be a lot better if they nerfed gauss AND made infantry stronger. Either that, or make gunner hogs more difficult to get.

 

It would be nice to build marines for once instead of opening every single game with 5 hogs or a tank build.

Creepy Krisp get off the forums you crazy 7 year old

7 year old who knows what he's talking about.

There i no problem with gunner hogs

FJ: Why is marines listed as a soft counter to hogs, but equivalent tech levels and superior numbers of marines will never win out in game?  I have done nothing but parse the cutter infantry advantage only to find none to be had.  but i digress; as you've explained about ultimate unit cost and tech level advantages being taken into account, I've done so and the listing of marines being a viable counter at any point is now, for me, quite laughable.  going on 80 hours on live just playing cutter trying to get elephants and marines to be worth a hoot.