Helo Legends, The Duel

Last post 11-26-2009, 11:32 AM by Gruntyking117. 50 replies.
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  •  11-25-2009, 11:41 AM 776767 in reply to 776764

    Re: Helo Legends, The Duel

    They fight to the death for glory (honor)? I'm not saying that they're 100% based off the Norse or Spartans, but that's what I saw them as. I never saw them as Samurai, though, and certainly never to that extent.

    Current Fan Fictions in the Library:

    ODST: Hellbound

    The Interrogation of Ellen Anders

    Halo: Archangel
  •  11-25-2009, 11:50 AM 776771 in reply to 776767

    Re: Helo Legends, The Duel

    Well, as the Elite of Covenant society, below only the Prophets, they certainly could be considered aristocratic.  Their predilection for battle poems also echoes the samurai high culture.  Certainly, Bushido concepts such as honor unto death, loyalty and military might and martial skill all fall under the Elite style of culture.  Their deference to higher ranks, and the way the rest of the Covenant deferred to them, was also incredibly Japanese in terms of societal hierarchy.  I'd say it's about 70 to 80 percent Japanese and the rest is a mix of Spartan and Assyrian concepts.

    An Exigent Contact awaits you.

    Do not let him beyond your sight, for he is...strange. The ground he treads is sour...wrong.
  •  11-25-2009, 12:16 PM 776793 in reply to 776771

    Re: Helo Legends, The Duel

    Gruntyking117:Well, as the Elite of Covenant society, below only the Prophets, they certainly could be considered aristocratic.

    I suppose.

    Gruntyking117:

    Their predilection for battle poems also echoes the samurai high culture. 

    I've only ever heard of Hunters reciting battle poems, however the Norse had battle songs, the Spartans had music played, and even troops in colonial times had "rally music." It's not a thing found only in Samurai culture.

    Gruntyking117:

    Certainly, Bushido concepts such as honor unto death, loyalty and military might and martial skill all fall under the Elite style of culture. 

    Spartans had honor even in death, and leading up to it. Loyalty is found in every culture, as well as military prowess. In their heyday, the Spartans were the best fighting force, period. I even believe they defeated Samurai. 

    Gruntyking117:

    Their deference to higher ranks, and the way the rest of the Covenant deferred to them, was also incredibly Japanese in terms of societal hierarchy. 

    Something found in modern military structure, as well as Roman and Greek styles of living. Hell, even feudal England had that type of Hierarchy. 

    Gruntyking117:

    I'd say it's about 70 to 80 percent Japanese and the rest is a mix of Spartan and Assyrian concepts.

    I wouldn't. They're Sangheili, and have Sangheili culture. If you try hard enough, you can find bits of every civilization on Earth in their culture.


    Current Fan Fictions in the Library:

    ODST: Hellbound

    The Interrogation of Ellen Anders

    Halo: Archangel
  •  11-25-2009, 12:31 PM 776802 in reply to 776793

    Re: Helo Legends, The Duel

    Spartan R41:

    Gruntyking117:Well, as the Elite of Covenant society, below only the Prophets, they certainly could be considered aristocratic.

    I suppose.

    Gruntyking117:

    Their predilection for battle poems also echoes the samurai high culture. 

    I've only ever heard of Hunters reciting battle poems, however the Norse had battle songs, the Spartans had music played, and even troops in colonial times had "rally music." It's not a thing found only in Samurai culture.

    Gruntyking117:

    Certainly, Bushido concepts such as honor unto death, loyalty and military might and martial skill all fall under the Elite style of culture. 

    Spartans had honor even in death, and leading up to it. Loyalty is found in every culture, as well as military prowess. In their heyday, the Spartans were the best fighting force, period. I even believe they defeated Samurai. 

    Gruntyking117:

    Their deference to higher ranks, and the way the rest of the Covenant deferred to them, was also incredibly Japanese in terms of societal hierarchy. 

    Something found in modern military structure, as well as Roman and Greek styles of living. Hell, even feudal England had that type of Hierarchy. 

    Gruntyking117:

    I'd say it's about 70 to 80 percent Japanese and the rest is a mix of Spartan and Assyrian concepts.

    I wouldn't. They're Sangheili, and have Sangheili culture. If you try hard enough, you can find bits of every civilization on Earth in their culture.

    I'm talking purely from an inspiration perspective in terms of development on that final note.  You can find just as many animals, fictional and actual, that inspired them as well, namely Predators and Aliens from their respective series'.  And sure, many cultures have had similar ideals to the Japanese, but the thing that tips it in favor for the Elites is easily the artistic style they've represented over the games and books.  The Duel merely emblazons that.

     And for the battle poems, straight from page 210 of Halo: The Flood:

    "Proceed, 'Zamamee said. "You know what to do.  Turn on your stealth generators, check your weapons and remember this moment.  Because this battle, this victory, will be woven into your family's battle poem and sung by generations to come."

     Finally, dishonor rarely meant death in other cultures as it did for the Japanese.  Same goes with the Elites.  Surely there an amalgam of various Earth cultures, but I definitely see Japanese as the strongest element, especially since The Duel.


    An Exigent Contact awaits you.

    Do not let him beyond your sight, for he is...strange. The ground he treads is sour...wrong.
  •  11-25-2009, 10:34 PM 777024 in reply to 776802

    Re: Helo Legends, The Duel

    I wouldn't refer to The Flood for strict canon. For all we know it could have been the rock-carving on the Clan's wall (though that's also from a questionable book). Hardly a poem.

    My point is; Samurai may have been one of the many inspirations for the Sangheili. This doesn't mean it's a-okay for them to butcher the Sangheili by making them that Samurai. If they do that with the Spartans then I'm done with it [Legends.]


    Current Fan Fictions in the Library:

    ODST: Hellbound

    The Interrogation of Ellen Anders

    Halo: Archangel
  •  11-26-2009, 11:32 AM 777202 in reply to 777024

    Re: Helo Legends, The Duel

    Spartan R41:

    I wouldn't refer to The Flood for strict canon. For all we know it could have been the rock-carving on the Clan's wall (though that's also from a questionable book). Hardly a poem.

    My point is; Samurai may have been one of the many inspirations for the Sangheili. This doesn't mean it's a-okay for them to butcher the Sangheili by making them that Samurai. If they do that with the Spartans then I'm done with it [Legends.]

    Well, the whole battle poems and tapestry thing was brought up again in The Cole Protocol which again, had heavy amounts of Bushido elements.  As for the architecture, the brand-new Halo: Evolutions gives us a nice little tidbit explaining how the Elites might have wound up with such a style:

     

    I direct you attention to the photographs from Heian.  There were obvious Forerunner elements in that architecture, but also unmistakable architectural themes from Greco-Roman, East Asian and Middle Eastern eras.  All of those buildings predated human travel to that world by perhaps hundreds maybe thousands of years.  We find ourselves wondering if they borrowed from their history, or we from theirs.  It is impossible that it was a coincidence.

     We know that the Elites come from a world that had Forerunner artifacts.  Perhaps the architecture of the artifacts left behind was the "East Asian" style Forerunner that they had adopted.

     Finally, I don't consider going all-out Japanese "butchering" them in the slightest.  It merely compounds the strength of their gameplay and personality traits: fearless, confident and bound by honor.  Well-composed.  A strong contrast to the Nordic brutality of the Jiralhanae, which are interesting study in and of themselves.  Besides, it was a Japanese produced piece.  You really couldn't avoid some of the cinematic cliches of the Japanese.  Halo is already a cliche universe, borrowing from other great moments and spinning its own yarn.  I think The Duel did an exceptional job of that.


    An Exigent Contact awaits you.

    Do not let him beyond your sight, for he is...strange. The ground he treads is sour...wrong.
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