Jason X35:

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VaultingFrog 2...you make some good points, but you miss three facts:

1.) The door panel, having been made by the Forerunner, is likely to be something with a much higher melting point than something as "simple" and modern as titanium.

2.) When an object re-enters the atmosphere, it creates a void behind it where the temperature does not penetrate. Much like a boat's wake traveling through water.

3.) As the angle of something with momentum approaches the horizontal, then more and more of that energy is transferred horizontally, resulting in more of the energy to be transferred over a greater distance, much like a skid.

I'm not willing to be the first one to try this, but if you take this into account, then the Chief's re-entry becomes more plausible with his full armor on as well.

You forgot that the marine engineer siad:

"gel layer's taken most of the impact"

This means that chief musta pumped up his hydrostatic gel, giving him even more protection. 

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Or Bungie just wanted something totally awesome and not realistic for the beginning of their game. As awesome as Spartans are they would never survive and impact like that, but wait the spartans at reach didnt have the Mark VI, Did they?

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Humans are on the road to distruction. Not by aliens, but by the very things they hold dearly, Earth....

DFang:

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You forgot that the marine engineer siad:

"gel layer's taken most of the impact"

This means that chief musta pumped up his hydrostatic gel, giving him even more protection. 

I didn't forget, I even mentioned that this was with his full armor on. All I was trying to do was show that it's a plausible scenario and that he wouldn't have died on impact.

Oh yeah, something to add to my first post: the Spartan II's that died on Reach wouldn't have access to the armor the Chief did. Remember, the Chief got new armor at the beginning of Halo 2. Just pointing out that maybe as a result of the Spartan II's hitting the surface of Reach, the developers of the suit made some impact modifications for the next model.

Now that's funny. I quoted DFang, but because that crap at the beginning was in my post that he quoted, it's still here....anyone have an idea how to get rid of it?

Besides that, the Chief doesn't take fall damage.

Yea, cuz hes awesome!

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Humans are on the road to distruction. Not by aliens, but by the very things they hold dearly, Earth....

Jason X35:

 

VaultingFrog 2...you make some good points, but you miss three facts:

1.) The door panel, having been made by the Forerunner, is likely to be something with a much higher melting point than something as "simple" and modern as titanium.

This I do take into account. However heat wraps around an object. It would have to be an extremely large piece of metal for that heat not to get to him as he makes his reentry.  It would be cooler in the center to be sure but an object the size of a door (which can be seen in the begining of Halo 3) just wouldnt be large enough to prevent this wrap around heat. It doesnt require the heat to go through the object to get to him.

Jason X35:

2.) When an object re-enters the atmosphere, it creates a void behind it where the temperature does not penetrate. Much like a boat's wake traveling through water.

See above. An object the size of a door wouldnt provide a large enough shadow for the heat to bypass him. At the least we would be talking about a 16 foot by 16 foot object. Clearly the door presented in the begining cutscene as well as active play is not that large.

Jason X35:

3.) As the angle of something with momentum approaches the horizontal, then more and more of that energy is transferred horizontally, resulting in more of the energy to be transferred over a greater distance, much like a skid.

Look at the amount of distance between his resting spot and the actual impact crater. I would estimate that to be about 40 meters at best. Thats just over 130 feet. At that kind of velocity that amount of space is kind of small to bleed off so much energy. He most certainly would have landed with a fatal velocity even with that little skip.

Now I am willing to allow for an extra bounce off the nearby rocks (though I dont see how as he landed so close to them already) which could account for his survival. That I will let slide for the sake of arguement.

Jason X35:

I'm not willing to be the first one to try this, but if you take this into account, then the Chief's re-entry becomes more plausible with his full armor on as well.

Adding in the additional comment about the overpressured gel layer still doesnt make much of a change in my mind. It most certainly would have helped but with out several bounces on impact I still think that he would have been crushed at those velocities. Even the heat from reentry would have killed him.

Lets not forget that he also would have hand to manhandle the door to keep it level the entire time. Objects dont like to lay flat in freefall very often. The drag combined with the friction of the atmosphere would have made the door tip to its narrowest point (its edge) that would not only have increased his speed but fully exposed him to the heat of reentry.

 

Sorry for the late reply. I have been busy.

im pretty sure the suit can take very high temperatures since it can also work perfectly in a vacuum. but it wouldnt have to take very high temps because a vacuum is created in the area just behind the falling object. go look at my other post where explain that

CtNightrider:im pretty sure the suit can take very high temperatures since it can also work perfectly in a vacuum. but it wouldnt have to take very high temps because a vacuum is created in the area just behind the falling object. go look at my other post where explain that

Sorry but I doubt that the suits environmental systems are designed to withstand 3000 degree heat. Even 1500 degrees. While the suit itself may survive the person inside would be killed. His blood and other body fluids would boil at those temps.

And a vacuum has nothing to do with this. Its in atmosphere not in space.

Also I have clearly given examples as to why a door wouldnt give a large enough shadow from the heat to keep Spartan-117 protected. I mean seriously you can see it in the opening cutscene of Halo 3 and you even walk by it when you first get control of your character. It simply is not that large.

It more than likely was the size of a normal door. If not just slightly bigger, that would mean about 8ft by 4ft. Not exactly that big. To create a shadow large enough for somebody to survive reentry you would need an object (in my opinion of course) that is 16ft by 12ft. That is 6 times the surface area of the door you see in the actual game. As an object that size would be almost impossable to handle during reentry by a single person I doubt it would be used.

Not only would it be over the weight limit for a Spartan in MJOLNIR armor to lift and manuver. It would constantly be trying to tip itself on its edge as that is the path of least resistance. That means Spartan-117 is constantly having to manhandle the object to keep it flat in order to project that shadow around him. He would have to be spread armed as well as spread legged in order to do that (if he even could manage the feat). That means the object has to cover his limbs in that shadow to keep them intact. Thats why I chose such a large object.

 

the suit is vacuum sealed and is temperature controlled, this means that for the temp inside the suit to rise to that level the suit would have to break. and yes when your going that fast air is pushed out of the way and by the time air is able to fill that void your out of it. creating a fairly large pyramid of near vacuum. if you can do the math to show how big that void would be then ill accept it but im pretty sure the void would be big enough, and cortana would be able to do the math and figure out the best angle to create the best sized void.

The time changes are due to cross-country flight. Bungie said somewhere, that S-117 entered the atmosphere over the Middle-East somewhere and travelled across these countries until he impacts in Kenya. This makes sense since the Middle East is ahead of Africa in terms of time, so he could be seen 'flying' through day, impacting at night in Kenya (since they are behind, it could still be night time for them). Then time passes with S-117 lying in the jungle until daytime comes where Johnson comes along for the rescue.

 "How far did he fall?"

"Two kilometers easy"- The in-game Marines are aware of a distance travelled by S-117 while Airborne, so while not directly saying he flew cross country, Bungie does attempt to hint at it.

 

As for how he actually survived the fall  anyways, that's down to the advanced capabilites of the MJOLNIR Mark VI armour he wears. It contains a gel layer which can be manipulated (thickened for example) to protect against a harmful incoming danger, in this case hitting the ground from a large fall. "Gel layer could have taken most of the impact" is said in-game and so suggests that this is what saves him.

 Also the fact that he used a big Forerunner door as protection would help. Forerunners used advanced materials for building items, the ship that the door is from is one of them. You can even see this for yourself. The door still has it's shape and designs on it, and is merely impaled into the ground from the momentum of the fall. It isn't warped, just hot as evident from the molten metal look on it's edges, but it's still not heated enough to deform, showing the strength of the door.

 

Anything I missed? Just ask. 

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Alright, the argument I see here the most is the temperature. To begin with, the temperatures observed on most all reentry vehicles in the actual world are 900*C, or about 1650*F. That's not that hot, comparatively. When I took a glassblowing class, we kept the molten glass at 2500*F, and that was even considered a bit colder than most places. My hand never melt off while gathering the glass from the heat radiating off, and touching a rod (on accident) that was still a dull red (around 1290*F) only resulted in a bad burn.

Human beings producing stunts for movies constantly light themselves on fire. They're proteced by only flame retardant cloth (which wouldn't dampen the heat that much), and are then lit ablaze. Those temperatures get around 2190*F. 

Now, for the Master Chief. His suit contains a mechanic known as the Hydrostatic Gel Layer. The purpose of this layer is to keep the body temperature of the Spartan at a constant in extreme heat and cold. Somehow, I think 1650*F falls well within the "extreme heat" range. To add to this, there is an emergency port on the suit that expells spent Hydrostatic Gel to keep the wearer from boiling alive.

Now, when the Chief is falling, we see him engulfed in an orange fireball. From the color, we're able to tell the temeratupre using this chart below:

• Red
  • Just visible: 525 °C (977 °F)
  • Dull: 700 °C (1290 °F)
  • Cherry, dull: 800 °C (1470 °F)
  • Cherry, full: 900 °C (1650 °F)
  • Cherry, clear: 1000 °C (1830 °F)
• Orange
  • Deep: 1100 °C (2010 °F)
  • Clear: 1200 °C (2190 °F)
• White
  • Whitish: 1300 °C (2370 °F)
  • Bright: 1400 °C (2550 °F)
  • Dazzling: 1500 °C (2730 °F)

 The bolded ones are the temperatures that the Chief would have been encountering around him. The underlined bold ones are what his suit would have possibly encountered, judging from real-life atmospheric reentries. This is a little difficult, as we never see the Chief's suit glowing.

The Hydrostatic Gel layer would have been able to compensate for this, theoretically.

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Ocean let me point you to this artical: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_thermal_protection_system

It clearly describes in the first paragraph the temperatures found in atmospheric reentry. Spesificly Earth's atmosphere.

That is well above your projected numbers.

 

Keep in mind however that the other temperatures listed are based off of ideal reentry vectors.

Something to keep in mind though; that's a space shuttle, which has more mass to burn. We're talking about a door, and a 7ft tall man here. There's significantly less mass, and probably less resistance.

The arguing of this topic is almost fruitless. The Master Chief landed, and survived atmospheric reentry. The Mark VI suit survived this twice. This is most likely due to the material making up the armor, as well as the hydrostatic gel layer and the overall mass of the Chief. The original argument/topic, how the Chief was in the day and night, has been resolved. The topic should be over.

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Current Fan Fictions in the Library:

ODST: Hellbound

The Interrogation of Ellen Anders

Halo: Archangel