Hawki:The Flood almost certainly carry out respiration, as Guilty Spark mentions in H1 that the Flood will alter the atmosphere to suit their purposes. Clearly they're capable of breathing in an enviroment that suits us (primarily oxygen, nitrogen, argon and carbon dioxide) but have preferances that are harmful to us.
Altering the atmosphere doesn't necessarily mean changing as much as removing. And since Combat Forms can jump between ships in space in order to board vessels, I'd say that respiration is not a primary function of the Flood.
Hawki: I agree. In an FPS we can do the impossible but in an RTS, it's down to numbers.
Exactly.
Hawki: Um, you do realise that the Thor is primarily a ground-to-air unit and that as of the current build, Vikings are primarily air units with ground mode as a secondary capability.
That's odd...because isn't the Thor supposed to be like this awesome artillery piece?
Hawki: Took out the good stuff? The Firebat was next to useless against anything apart from zerglings, Medics always struck me as cheap and unrealistic (prefer the Medevac Dropship concept too), the Nomad is an adequate replacement for the Science Vessel and Valkyries had very limited applications. I still prefer Goliaths and Wraiths to the Thor and Vikings, but anyway, the above units will likely be in the map editor anyway.
But...I like firebats... :p
Hawki: In that scenario, I'm guessing the Spartans would win. There's room to apply mass firepower and they can spread out easily.
Sure, and in an open desert with no cover and nothing to climb on, who would win: ten SPARTAN-IIs or a Scarab?
Rasq'uire'laskar: Might not be. For what we know, altering the atmosphere could include terraforming entire climates, or use as a chemical weapon to eradicate any resistance from their food.
Also true.
Rasq'uire'laskar: Ditto.
:)
Rasq'uire'laskar: That's what they were as of a few months ago. But why use artillery to attack air?
I was wondering that too.
Rasq'uire'laskar: Air units that edged out the Predator. In any case, why load all the useless crap onto a fighter? Seems counterproductive.
I think the Vikings will make for interesting strategy, personally.
Rasq'uire'laskar: I agree with the Firebat, the Nomad, and the Goliaths and Wraiths. Still not sure about the Medivac Dropship, but it should be dropping medipacks or something instead of dropping an arm down and healing.
But with the TTT Siege Tank, Thor, TTT Viking, and Nova-esque Ghost, it almost seems like the Terrans lost their 'veteran Military' style, going for something a lot less believable. IDK...
I see your point.
Scifidownbeat: I'm sorry, I thought this was a forum about the flood, yet here I see a bunch of Starcraft words.
There was actually some Flood talk in both those posts. :p
Scifidownbeat: Anyways, the whole multiple quoting thing is annoying, especially when someone quotes someone who already had multiple quotes. That policy makes for one very long, very unattractive post. Why do you have to reply to every single post? It saves time to forget the redundant questions.
Quotes actually work well to break up walls of texts, so they aren't unattractive. And I reply to everyone, so no one is ignored. It also makes arguments more logic based.
Scifidownbeat: Anyways, the Juggernaut isn't canon. Yet. See, if the Juggy does appear in Halo Wars (although the appearance of the flood is unlikely based on what we've seen and heard about the game, let alone the appearance of the juggernaut), it will become canon. But since it did not appear in the final cut of any of the haloes, it isn't canon.
It's about as close to canon as you can get without being canon, though.
TNine: Ah, but the beauty is Rotaratilbo quotes every post and responds to everyone, which is why he is so respected.
And i brought up the canon juggernaut thing on the old thread.
Exactly.
Rasq'uire'laskar: We ran out of ideas for the Flood. Sad, ain't it.
Well, the original thread dates back to nearly a year and three quarters ago, doesn't it?
Rasq'uire'laskar: Multiple quoting is a more exact form of argument, allowing you to address every point a person brings up.
It allows me to break down arguments much more easily.
Rasq'uire'laskar: The Juggernaut wasn't deleted. It wasn't scrapped. It's not like the Alien Trooper or the Drinol. It was within inches of getting into the game. It even has spawn points, but these are switched off. Therefore, it's as close to canon as anything.
Like I said, as close to canon as not-canon can get.
zaki90: hey, Engineer didn't even have spawn points and they are canon.
A juggernaut has spawn points and you say they are not canon.
Engineers make appearances in Halo: The Fall of Reach, as well as Halo: First Strike and Halo: Contact Harvest. I believe they make appearances in the other two novels as well.
Vita: The engineers have appeared in the books though. The Juggernaut hasn't.
But then, only one of five novels has focused on the Flood, and even then, it was very limited in its insight into Flood community. the Halo Graphic Novel is about as close to the Flood as we get in the books.
Aesendant Justice: ^ maybe the juggernauts havent because they may be some sort of inner-hive-elite-guard or something to protect the gravemind in case the sentinels or any other sentient being tried to stop it. The juggernauts dont exactly look like something that would be easy to create out of an elite or grunt. In the Halo 2 cutscene at the entrance to the level "Gravemind" if you look behind it you can see that brown spongy material. So maybe it came from that?
Actually, Juggernauts look like really really big Carrier Forms, which are made with Grunts. :p
blackout131: ya, i'm pretty sure juggernoughts would be pure forms
I would not be so quick to agree.
zaki90: Yet, the books came after the game. In Halo 1, Cortana says, " The Flood, they are gathering bodies,"
She is referring to bodies to create a Juggernaut.
Actually, Halo: The Fall of Reach, which meantions the Engineers, was released a couple days prior to Halo: Combat Evolved. And she is actually more likely referring to them building a Gravemind.
Rasq'uire'laskar: Doesn't look like a Pure Form to me.
I think there is a series of Flood forms we barely saw, which I call "Composite Forms". These are created from the fusing of multiple bodies, and require the knowledge and intelligence of a Proto-Gravemind to create. This is as opposed to Pure Forms, which cannot be created without significant sources of calcium, and maybe a Gravemind.
So, the evolution of Flood soldiers is theorized to be as follows:
Infection Forms > Combat Forms > Composite Forms > Pure Forms
A possibility. Makes more sense than the Juggernaut as a Pure Form.
Aesendant Justice: ^ SO using this, if ensemble adds the multiplayer flood faction, they could in theory, add new flood forms that we havent seen yet. This could include juggernauts and maybe some new forms as well.
They could anyways, but yes.
Hawki: Adding new units for each of the factions, Flood included, is pretty much a given. Something new is needed to make the game viable.
As for the Juggernaut...to my knowledge, Bungie has never presented a policy on canon. The Juggernaut makes no official appearance in any canon material, but there's nothing to suggest that it isn't there either. Personally, I think that the Juggernaut, the other alien races, vehicles, etc. are free to be treated as personal canon or not, depending on whether you have an exclusionist or inclusionist mentality. Nothing to suggest that they're there in canon material, but nothing to suggest otherwise.
(Personally I have an inclusionist mentality, so Juggernaut and all the other things that didn't make the cut FTW!)
I'm a bit of an exclusionist myself, but I include the Juggernauts in my idea of canon because of how close they were to getting into the game.
TNine: But in Halo 3 they weren't seen in the level Cortana, which would be the inner guard thing you are talking about.
True.
TNine: Or maybe a proto-gravemind. Or an invasion force.
Also true.
TNine: Maybe Juggernauts are put together when many Lekgolo worms are put together. Each worm was put together by a infection form.
Or maybe flood form Juggernauts when there is threat of veichles. There is no veichle flood levels in H3.
I don't know about the Lekgolo part, but perhaps the vehicle bit is true.
Aesendant Justice: Yeah but we werent actually "near" the gravemind so we dont know exactly where it was. Maybe it was in some sealed chamber at the heart of high charity or something. In my opinion it would have been cool to actually see the whole thing rather than just the head and a few tentacles.
Perhaps.
Scifidownbeat: IDK, it just seems like it's too much trouble to quote everyone and repeat your answers (for example, if one forum-goer repeats the question of another forum-goer, why say "Like I said with (so-and-so), ...." instead of just skipping the person altogther?). Or, you can skip quoting and just say "So-and-so: I think with your idea..."
A lot of trouble just for a forum...
Not like I have anything better to do...other than study for all those AP tests...screw that. :p
Scifidownbeat: I think that if it isn't in the final cut of the game (or final edition of the book, like with the engineer), it isn't canon. Ensemble could change that.
It isn't confirmed canon, rather.
